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MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

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Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#881
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's relevant! Software is a form of expression. Apple controls what types of expression are allowed on your phone. A developer made a game depicting bad practices at FoxConn. Apple removed it for "Objectionable Content"[1]. How is this inherently different from Apple saying you can't use your iPhone to read a certain book? Apple's restrictions also make it easy for authoritarian governments to ban software…

It is identical, and if I considered my phone to be primarily a research platform I'd be really upset. I got really upset with YouTube mucking around curating what videos they allow on their platform because I want to choose my own videos. But ultimately I own an iPhone because I need a GPS map, SIM card and web browser on the go. Apple doesn't exercise any creative control over those things. Apart from that they exp…

Last time I checked, they force you to use the safari engine for your web browser on IOS. Also having a curated app store doesn't mean they have to disallow any other means of installing software. It's even ok if they say: You installed other software, no support for you. But making it not possible is a money grab.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#882
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debian is just as quick, and does not have the problematic "rolling" updates of Arch. (It does have the "testing" and "unstable" channels which are roughly comparable, but the Debian folks won't tell you to use them in production.)

Debian is not just as quick (significantly slower and higher resource usage), but Arch isn't all that fast nowadays, either.

Debian - or Devuan if you don't want systemd - can be made as spartan as you want. It boots in those mentioned few seconds on my 15yo T42p (Pentium M@1.8GHz, 2GB). Use Sid/Unstable if you want more up-to-date software with the accompanying larger flow of updates.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is this Gruber person you quote and why is he relevant here?

He's the person who made the markdown format, which you've used as your username. Other than that, he's mostly known for writing and talking about Apple.

> He's the person who made the markdown format, which you've used as your username.

That's news to me. My username is my name plus down (I use up for work-related accounts, and down for leisure).

> Other than that, he's mostly known for writing and talking about Apple.

Ahh, ok thanks.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you write much system-level software? I feel like Apple's changes don't affect the XCode crowd much - but under the hood, things are slowly getting worse for command-line developers. How about when Apple removed /usr/include in its entirety from Mojave? Or when they decided to make the root filesystem read-only? Or when they removed the ability to permanently disable the "only run verified apps" option? Or when th…

Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing. command line apps installed via home-brew don't have gate-keeper/notarization though. I don't know why ppl seem to think they do... What am I missing? I'm on the latest Catalina and, for me, anything installed via home-brew / scripts/c++/python/rust I write and run/compile myself, just run. I also don't see any time different between my apps on linux and macOS. I use itemr2,…

Maybe you're missing to foresee the future step in Apple's strategy which will make it harder if not impossible to run something like Homebrew? As far as I know there is no such thing on (non-jailbroken) iOS. Apple seems be be steering macOS in that direction, a curated platform instead of a general-purpose computing device.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#885
post #3

If Microsoft wasn't doing ever worse privacy things with Windows I'd seriously look into switching away from Mac OS given the ever growing issues it's been having with every release.

Switch to Linux then.

The other thread reply on this topic notes the reasons Linux is not considered a viable desktop replacement for many people.

Personally I'd need to run a VM for a bunch of software or fight Wine. That's assuming my machine has the right hardware support for everything and even then the trackpad support is likely to not be great.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may ask, why do you still persist with apple products then? Sounds like masochism from here...

I have no intention of buying more at this point. The last was the iPhone 8 in 2017. No clue yet what I'll do in the future for a smartphone, because I don't see Android as an option at all. Hopefully this iPhone 8 lasts forever :)

iPhone SE is iPhone 8 on steroids.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would any developer even want to release their app in walled garden when they can do whatever they want by releasing elsewhere?

Analogue question in the linux world: Why would anyone get something in the debian package repository, when they can just release their package on their website? Because it gets added support, a bigger reach and a safer and easier installation for users?

There are special people: maintainers. They collect software from the world and package them for Debian. They often are different from original developers. Original developers might not even know that their software was repackaged. It's possible because of free software licenses. Apple can't do that even if they would want: proprietary software typically does not allow redistribution.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you @all for the suggestions! I'm going to set aside some time to experiment with these and see how far I get.

Nice, I would like to hear your experience with it once you do that

Well, my head is spinning, but I've made a bit of progress. I thought I'd start by trying out a few of the ones you and others have characterized as user-friendly as well as one of the more bare-bones ones.

The (hopelessly unscientific) test plan was:

Challenge 1 - write live system ISO to USB drive and boot it on my 2015 MacBook Air (which, though old, still counts as exotic, I guess.)

Challenge 2 - make sure display, network, trackpad and keyboard (+ intl. layout) work correctly. Be able to SFTP to my Mac

Challenge 3 - with little to no docs reading (how is the package manager invoked from CLI?), use the terminal to set up the right environment for a couple of relatively portable hobby projects I've been recently working on (on Mac), compile and test them. This includes, among other things, installing clang or g++, SDL2, Wine (to run an ancient ARM assembler) and finding a usable GBA emulator.

Limitations:

   A: 8GB RAM. More ambitious stuff (KVM macOS, VisualStudio Code) will have to wait for an actual install.
   B: Deliberately avoiding exposure to the docs is silly but I thought 
      such an approach would give me an indication as to whether 
      there exists a distro that uhm, "thinks like me".

Candidates: Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, KDE Neon (which, if I'm not wrong, is Ubuntu LTS preconfigured as the latest KDE) and Void.

Results:

Challenge 1: unremarkable. All worked right off the bat except for Void, which made it as far as showing the mouse pointer but then froze.

Challenge 2: well, boring ;) All distros were pretty much ready to use and required minimal tweaking. With the tweaking part ranging from effortless (Mint) to minor headscratching (Neon). Not sure whether /etc/X11/XF86Config still exists but I did not miss editing it today.

Challange 3: more interesting:

Neon: all worked as expected except some trial and error required to get Wine working: wine32 was required but it wasn't getting installed by default, apparently. (Not a whole lot easier on Mac anyway, with separate downloads & installs for Wine and XQuartz)

Ubuntu: I failed as apt refused to acknowledge the existence of the packages I needed. This is weird as I believe Neon relies on the same package database. Though undoubtedly my fault, not reading the manual, it is perhaps a bit interesting that I could not readily find my way around the problem.

Fedora: everything worked except for Wine, as the live system ran out memory (disk space) on installing it. Not a big deal, everything else worked very well. Aside: I'm an avid runner and "DNF" is not the most likeable of names for a program I have to use very frequently! j/k..

Mint: everything worked at take one.

I know this isn't even scratching the surface of the surface but I think for now I'm going to go ahead and play more with Mint and Fedora after installing them on MB Air hardware or MB Pro VMware.... with a mind of getting back to KDE/Neon eventually.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#889
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac is a BSD. OpenBSD exists. FreeBSD exists. NetBSD exists. Because there are at least four BSDs, Mac therefore isn't good. Do you see how ridiculous applying that logic to any operating system is? Linux isn't a disaster. It's a kernel. There are Linux distributions with great user interfaces and great UX, developed by people who are great at it. There are also distributions that aren't.

> Do you see how ridiculous applying that logic to any operating system is? Somehow, when you ask a person about PC or a Mac, the answer is: Windows or MacOS, and then the discussion is about their quirks, or advantages, or deficiencies. You ask about Linux, and this is what you get: > Linux isn't a disaster. It's a kernel. There are Linux distributions with great user interfaces and great UX So, once again: which on…

Ask a person about UNIX, they'll list Mac, Solaris, whatever. All UNIX distributions! I listed a bunch elsewhere in this subthread. Feel free to check them out, but for some reason I'm beginning to suspect that you're probably not going to.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#890
Just switch to Windows and WSL. For most cases, it works just great/not noticeably slower.

There's a lot of bullshit on Windows too but nothing near OSX levels of wannabe big brother shit.

Can't think of a better long term short right now in the market than Apple (and sister cult Tesla but the electric story is at least in the early days so they may do ok)

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