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MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

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Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#801

Post by m463 »

sergeykish wrote: post #465
inimino wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Arch on a server once (still running) but found the experience on Debian was more to my taste, and somehow never liked pacman. Maybe it's time to take another look. I never tried it on the desktop.

Interesting, I have opposite experience. Pacman looks so much simpler than aptitude, apt-get, apt-cache, dpkg. And makepkg - it just works. I have not managed to create packages on Ubuntu. No outdated packages, no ppa. No upgrade. Install is rough but it nails how simple the system is. Ubuntu is a good starting point. But there is so much more.

I agree about makepkg / PKGBUILD -- I've casually made packages.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PKGBUILD

For debian/ubuntu it is not as straightforward.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#802

Post by cjohansson »

zanethomas wrote: post #679
throwaway851 wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look at it is that Apple is making it harder to run the system in an insecure fashion. You may not agree with that decision, but I certainly appreciate how Apple is looking out for the safety and security of the user. Tangent: as much as some developers hate that the only way to distribute apps for the iPhone is through the App Store, as a user I consider that walled garden of apps to be a real securit…

Another way to look at it is that Apple is moving towards a future where all software for the mac must be purchased from the app store. Bubye Apple, my next machine will likely be a Dell Ubuntu.

Dell Ubuntu is not a good choice, they don’t provide proper drivers and their support has zero knowledge about Linux

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#803

Post by cookiengineer »

zanethomas wrote: post #679
throwaway851 wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look at it is that Apple is making it harder to run the system in an insecure fashion. You may not agree with that decision, but I certainly appreciate how Apple is looking out for the safety and security of the user. Tangent: as much as some developers hate that the only way to distribute apps for the iPhone is through the App Store, as a user I consider that walled garden of apps to be a real securit…

Another way to look at it is that Apple is moving towards a future where all software for the mac must be purchased from the app store. Bubye Apple, my next machine will likely be a Dell Ubuntu.

> Dell Ubuntu

Casual Manjaro and Arch rolling distro with AUR is better drop.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#804

Post by jerryzh »

ibeckermayer wrote: post #694
throwaway851 wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look at it is that Apple is making it harder to run the system in an insecure fashion. You may not agree with that decision, but I certainly appreciate how Apple is looking out for the safety and security of the user. Tangent: as much as some developers hate that the only way to distribute apps for the iPhone is through the App Store, as a user I consider that walled garden of apps to be a real securit…

Why can’t they have their walled garden App Store and also allow me to install other app stores? It’s an authoritarian usurpation of the spirit of property rights. I should be able to decide for myself what software to run on my hardware, Apple HQ’s opinion should be irrelevant.

Why would any developer even want to release their app in walled garden when they can do whatever they want by releasing elsewhere?

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#805

Post by ghayes »

kevinh456 wrote: post #793
rurban wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called lockdown for a reason. Apple was just the very first to implement centralized binary blacklisting, revocation. They call it notarization. Problem is, that they did it unannounced. There must be really some weird stuff going on in those managers heads. How can they possibly think to go away with that?

There was nothing "unannounced" about it. Notarization was introduced at WWDC 2018 and announced as required at WWDC 2019. Every macOS developer should have been aware of this requirement. It was a special project for my apps.

I believe the concern here is that this is affecting not just macOS developers, but all developers who use macOS. That's an important distinction.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#806

Post by [deleted] »

rurban wrote: post #757
usmannk wrote: post #484

It seems like there is a lot of confusion here as to whether this is real or not. I've been able to confirm the behavior in the post by: - Using a new, random executable. Even echo $rand_int will work. Edit: What I mean here is generate your rand int beforehand and statically include it in your script. - Using a fresh filename too. Just throw a rand int at the end there. e.g. /tmp/test4329.sh I MITMd myself while rec…

It's called lockdown for a reason. Apple was just the very first to implement centralized binary blacklisting, revocation. They call it notarization. Problem is, that they did it unannounced. There must be really some weird stuff going on in those managers heads. How can they possibly think to go away with that?

[deleted]

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#807

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #392
xenadu02 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xcode (the UI) is able to bypass GateKeeper checks for things it builds. The "Developer Tool" pane in System Prefs, Security, Privacy is the same power. Drag anything into that list you'd like to grant the same privilege (such as xcodebuild). This is inherited by child processes as well. The point of this is to avoid malware packing bits of Xcode with itself and silently compiling itself on the target machine, thus b…

Putting Terminal (and your favorite text editor) in this category and in "Full Disk Access" will change your life.

How does "Full Disk Access" help?

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#808

Post by fxtentacle »

saagarjha wrote: post #637
fxtentacle wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. That's probably also one reason why more and more people want to use cross-platform app frameworks instead of developing for iOS natively. That way, you can do most of the dev work on Windows and Android, and you'll only need to use Mac & XCode for compiling the iOS binary. And I'd wager that some iOS games are released without the developer ever touching XCode: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/UnityCloudBuildi…

Signing and submitting apps to Apple is fairly annoying to do without Xcode.

Unity has a service where they do it for you.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#809

Post by nrclark »

saila wrote: post #780
rsj_hn wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Yes the option of a walled garden is a great thing and I wouldn't recommend anything but an Apple device to my non-technical relatives. But if Apple also wants to make the $$ that comes from selling "pro" gear, they need to stop relentlessly consumerizing and turning OS X into iOS. I don't think they realize the level of ill will they are engendering in the developer/pro market. Perhaps it's time for a "Pro" an…

I've been doing software development on macOS/OS X for quite some time now and the consumerization aspects don't bother me. I install almost everything I need via Homebrew, from software libraries to desktops apps, and the fact that there's an App Store isn't particularly relevant (although I do use it for consumer apps now and then). I'm trying to think of how macOS is so different from 10/20 years ago. What's missi…

Do you write much system-level software? I feel like Apple's changes don't affect the XCode crowd much - but under the hood, things are slowly getting worse for command-line developers.

How about when Apple removed /usr/include in its entirety from Mojave? Or when they decided to make the root filesystem read-only? Or when they removed the ability to permanently disable the "only run verified apps" option? Or when they even made that the default in the first place?

How about when they stopped supporting or updating the MacOS X11 server, which doesn't have proper GPU support and probably never will?

How about when Apple replaced gcc with a thin wrapper around clang, so that /usr/bin/gcc generates identical code to /usr/bin/clang? Or how they froze all GNU tools (including bash) at the last-released GPLv2 version, just so that they could retain the option to lock you out from modifying your OS install?

How about the fact that Apple has officially deprecated Python on MacOS?

How about the increasingly slow filesystem access? Not a big deal for app users, but terrible for shell-scripts and system software kind of generally.

How about when Apple removed the ESC key from two generations of Macbook Pro? And also how they replaced the function keys with a touchbar?

Did you know that Apple will soon be using zsh for /bin/sh? Without much regard to how many shell scripts have a #!/bin/sh hashbang and some bashisms in them? You can call those scripts buggy or poorly designed if you want - but they're plentiful and widespread, and will be broken so that Apple can steer clear of GPLv3 code. All so that they can block you from modifying your OS installation.

MacOS was a Unix nerd's dream 10 years ago. It was fast, reliable, and it had a good terminal paired with amazing hardware and software that "just worked". Over time, everything that attracted me to the platform has slowly eroded. I stopped buying or recommending Macbooks in 2016, and only use one now because my employer is an Apple shop.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#810

Post by rtomayko »

I made the jump to a System76 Adder WS laptop and pop!os for development after buying the lemon first gen MBP with the terrible keyboard. It was my seventh and possibly last MBP (including powerbooks before it).

I was considering one of the new 13” MBPs but that seems unlikely if injecting network latency into syscalls is the direction things are going.

If you’re not building Mac/iOS apps, find a Linux laptop you can tolerate for development and an iPad Pro for everything else.

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