Netflix stops charging customers who never watch • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#101

Post by rconti » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:15 AM UTC

smabie wrote: post #48

spiralganglion wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do this at my company, and it is purely for altruistic reasons. If people aren't happily making good use of my service, I don't want their money. That's the entire calculus. Netflix is vastly bigger, granted, so who knows what machinations are afoot for them. But it is certainly believable to me that a company could choose to do something explicitly anti-greedy.

Really the only valid reason to do this is that the goodwill will help them make more money in the future. Strictly losing money with no upside in the future is in violation of the "duty of loyalty" that all corporate officers have toward shareholders.

Long term, both being, and being seen as the kind of company that doesn't needlessly abuse their customers, is in the best financial interests of a company.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#102

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:17 AM UTC

TechBro8615 wrote: post #65

goodside wrote: post #55

Years ago, I heard of a dating site doing the opposite of this. They normally sent periodic digests and newsletters to their users to try to increase engagement, but if a user went a certain number of months without logging into their account, but still allowed monthly fees to be charged, they were labeled as a “sleeping giant” in the database. Once in this state, they would not be contacted by the site for any reaso…

I’m quite sure hellosign does this as well. I did not receive a single email from them for two years, but they charged me $140 two times. I never used their paid offering. The second year, I never even logged in. I received no marketing emails, no “you’re about to be billed” emails, no “we received your payment” emails. It seems wrong.

[deleted]

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#103

Post by rconti » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:19 AM UTC

jacobwil wrote: post #40

rb808 wrote: post #38

Credit cards only last a few years before theyre expired and replaced. I'd think only very few accounts are unwatched, after 24 months I'd think more than half of CCs would have expired anyway.

Card networks offer services to receive updated credit card numbers for mutual customers now and have for a bunch of years. If your credit card expires, many subscription providers will get the updated details automatically. Here’s an article with some details on the topic: https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/card-updater-se...

Thanks for the link. I've also had the utterly bizarre experience of a service charging my old card number for MONTHS after it expires, have the charges go through, THEN tell me my card is expired 3-6months later and force me to update.

Probably a related thing where they want to keep receiving revenue from me without interruption to my service, but ultimately need to confirm it's not fraud?

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#104

Post by KajMagnus » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:22 AM UTC

gregjw wrote: post #97

ganstyles wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Economist did this to me. $5/mo and then auto renewed at something like $250/yr. All my credit cards are just auto pay full balance every month, and I don't check them as often as I should. Noticed the charge last month, found out they had been charging me for years for their digital subscription.

Had a similar experience with The Economist, it's also impossible to cancel your subscription online, you have to call them.

What happens if you block them, or your credit card, so they'll get no money?

Is there any risk they'd sue you? Or other auto renew services, what do you, or others, think — do they sometimes sue their customers whose credit card expired?

That sounds annoying b.t.w., having to call them etc.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#105

Post by cma » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:24 AM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #76

notadog wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 182.8 million subscribers in the first quarter of 2020, that means that less than 914,000 accounts have watched nothing in the past year.

Not sure I believe that. Even if it's true, it means they include everyone who watched a _single_ thing. I feel like they are doing the minimum change necessary to try to reduce legal problems. They have actually probably had a lot of people try to sue them for charging them for a service they have not used for months and months, when they forget about it and then notice the charges.

Probably also reducing chargebacks to get a lower fee from CC companies.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#106

Post by KajMagnus » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:26 AM UTC

kbyatnal wrote: post #98

goodside wrote: post #55

Years ago, I heard of a dating site doing the opposite of this. They normally sent periodic digests and newsletters to their users to try to increase engagement, but if a user went a certain number of months without logging into their account, but still allowed monthly fees to be charged, they were labeled as a “sleeping giant” in the database. Once in this state, they would not be contacted by the site for any reaso…

This is why privacy.com is great. Whenever I sign up for a subscription, I create a virtual card and after paying for the first month, I "pause" the card (ie. decline all additional charges). When I get the notification that my payment failed and I'm actually getting value out of the subscription, I log in and change the status to "active" again.

It sounds as if you are not worried that they would sue you?

What are the reasons you feel safe? (Then maybe I could try this me too)

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#107

Post by redis_mlc » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:26 AM UTC

smabie wrote: post #48

spiralganglion wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do this at my company, and it is purely for altruistic reasons. If people aren't happily making good use of my service, I don't want their money. That's the entire calculus. Netflix is vastly bigger, granted, so who knows what machinations are afoot for them. But it is certainly believable to me that a company could choose to do something explicitly anti-greedy.

Really the only valid reason to do this is that the goodwill will help them make more money in the future. Strictly losing money with no upside in the future is in violation of the "duty of loyalty" that all corporate officers have toward shareholders.

US courts have ruled that company management have "wide latitude" in how they manage the company.

(The reason is that the courts don't want to get involved in the minutae of running private companies. They'd rather you just update your company bylaws.)

However, shareholders, or most famously private equity (PE) companies, may pressure mgmt. to adopt certain policies and goals, and use their voting shares to encourage or even enforce that.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#108

Post by Hamuko » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:27 AM UTC

KajMagnus wrote: post #106

kbyatnal wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why privacy.com is great. Whenever I sign up for a subscription, I create a virtual card and after paying for the first month, I "pause" the card (ie. decline all additional charges). When I get the notification that my payment failed and I'm actually getting value out of the subscription, I log in and change the status to "active" again.

It sounds as if you are not worried that they would sue you? What are the reasons you feel safe? (Then maybe I could try this me too)

Why would a company sue a consumer because of a cancelled credit card?

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#109

Post by Hamuko » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:31 AM UTC

I cancelled my Netflix account after almost never watching it and now they keep sending me emails to reactivate my subscription for the low low price of 7.99 euro a month. For some reason they think that I want to come back to Netflix to watch shows at standard definition since for 7.99 you can't even get 720p, even though when I was subscribed, I had the 4K plan.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#110

Post by mrweasel » Sat, May 23, 2020, 6:32 AM UTC

rconti wrote: post #99

gregjw wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had a similar experience with The Economist, it's also impossible to cancel your subscription online, you have to call them.

My economist sub renewed at a cheaper/more reasonable rate (I think the common $130/yr that's at least better than newsstand) but I just think their subscription services are in the utter dark ages. Changing anything (Updating an expired credit card, change of address, etc) is painful.

Address was pretty easy, but if you don’t have the link they emailed you when your credit card expires then it is pretty much impossible to update your payment information.