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Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

bbc.com

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Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#51

Post by galaxyr »

cortesoft wrote: post #22
raiyu wrote: post #12

I always wonder when a company does this if it is completely altruistic or if something else is going on behind the scenes. Maybe notifying customers gets them to reactivate, maybe if they resubscribe later they can charge more, maybe it’s better for financial reporting and projecting subscriber counts. On the other hand it could just be a rare moment of a company doing right by the customer.

Amazon did this for me back in 2005 when they introduced Prime. I used the free trial for an order (to get it in two days), but then didn't order anything else and forgot to cancel. They sent me an email that they weren't going to charge me because I hadn't used it, but I was free to sign up in the future if I decided I wanted it. It was so refreshing, it made me a lifelong customer.

I was in a similar situation except I didn't use it even for a single order. They kept charging me after the free trial period. After a while I realized this, and cancelled. I reached out to them requesting a refund, at least partial since I haven't used it even once. But they did not refund any.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#52

Post by btrettel »

cortesoft wrote: post #22
raiyu wrote: post #12

I always wonder when a company does this if it is completely altruistic or if something else is going on behind the scenes. Maybe notifying customers gets them to reactivate, maybe if they resubscribe later they can charge more, maybe it’s better for financial reporting and projecting subscriber counts. On the other hand it could just be a rare moment of a company doing right by the customer.

Amazon did this for me back in 2005 when they introduced Prime. I used the free trial for an order (to get it in two days), but then didn't order anything else and forgot to cancel. They sent me an email that they weren't going to charge me because I hadn't used it, but I was free to sign up in the future if I decided I wanted it. It was so refreshing, it made me a lifelong customer.

Amazon definitely doesn't do this now. Amazon sometimes offers me a free Prime trial and they make it fairly clear that if you don't cancel before the conclusion of the trial, they'll automatically subscribe you to Prime and charge you. I'll sometimes take the trial but I always mark my calendar to cancel before the renewal.

Personally, I consider this to be a dark pattern and it makes me reluctant to sign up for any trial or even subscription services in general. I'm glad that Amazon is upfront about it but would prefer that they didn't do this at all.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#54

Post by solarkraft »

Reading this I kept thinking "What? What? Why would you do this?!"

Less than half a percent isn't that much relatively, but those are still many millions.

It'd be hard to convince me that they did it because they're nice, they have share holders who are not interested in that stuff.

So what could have pressured them to do this? Regulation?

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#55

Post by goodside »

Years ago, I heard of a dating site doing the opposite of this. They normally sent periodic digests and newsletters to their users to try to increase engagement, but if a user went a certain number of months without logging into their account, but still allowed monthly fees to be charged, they were labeled as a “sleeping giant” in the database. Once in this state, they would not be contacted by the site for any reason until they logged in again by their own initiative. The site had determined that, on average, contacting these users had a net-negative effect on retention — i.e., they would be reminded that they were paying for an unused service and cancel.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#56

Post by mehrdadn »

smabie wrote: post #48
spiralganglion wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do this at my company, and it is purely for altruistic reasons. If people aren't happily making good use of my service, I don't want their money. That's the entire calculus. Netflix is vastly bigger, granted, so who knows what machinations are afoot for them. But it is certainly believable to me that a company could choose to do something explicitly anti-greedy.

Really the only valid reason to do this is that the goodwill will help them make more money in the future. Strictly losing money with no upside in the future is in violation of the "duty of loyalty" that all corporate officers have toward shareholders.

> Strictly losing money with no upside in the future is in violation of the "duty of loyalty" that all corporate officers have toward shareholders.

I'm pretty sure that's just the absurd HN take on the "duty of loyalty", not an actual fact.

Also, if you absolutely need a pessimistic reason, I imagine it would avoid headaches with customers complaining (regardless of who's right).

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#57

Post by jclulow »

goodside wrote: post #55

Years ago, I heard of a dating site doing the opposite of this. They normally sent periodic digests and newsletters to their users to try to increase engagement, but if a user went a certain number of months without logging into their account, but still allowed monthly fees to be charged, they were labeled as a “sleeping giant” in the database. Once in this state, they would not be contacted by the site for any reaso…

I am routinely surprised to receive email spam from my gym membership. It's like they're daring me to remember to cancel it.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#58

Post by mehrdadn »

galaxyr wrote: post #51
cortesoft wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon did this for me back in 2005 when they introduced Prime. I used the free trial for an order (to get it in two days), but then didn't order anything else and forgot to cancel. They sent me an email that they weren't going to charge me because I hadn't used it, but I was free to sign up in the future if I decided I wanted it. It was so refreshing, it made me a lifelong customer.

I was in a similar situation except I didn't use it even for a single order. They kept charging me after the free trial period. After a while I realized this, and cancelled. I reached out to them requesting a refund, at least partial since I haven't used it even once. But they did not refund any.

I'm guessing your case was more like 2015 Amazon than 2005?

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#60

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

btrettel wrote: post #52
cortesoft wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon did this for me back in 2005 when they introduced Prime. I used the free trial for an order (to get it in two days), but then didn't order anything else and forgot to cancel. They sent me an email that they weren't going to charge me because I hadn't used it, but I was free to sign up in the future if I decided I wanted it. It was so refreshing, it made me a lifelong customer.

Amazon definitely doesn't do this now. Amazon sometimes offers me a free Prime trial and they make it fairly clear that if you don't cancel before the conclusion of the trial, they'll automatically subscribe you to Prime and charge you. I'll sometimes take the trial but I always mark my calendar to cancel before the renewal. Personally, I consider this to be a dark pattern and it makes me reluctant to sign up for any…

The bigger dark pattern is how they shuffle around the buttons in the checkout to trick you into adding a prime trial.
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