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MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

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Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#211

Post by chipotle_coyote »

Okay, I've tried this test on my MacBook Air 2020 several times, first by saving the "echo Hello" shell script in an editor and then, because I wasn't getting the results the author experienced, trying again exactly as he wrote it. Essentially the same result:

    airyote% echo $'#!/bin/sh\necho Hello' > /tmp/test.sh
    airyote% chmod a+x /tmp/test.sh
    airyote% time /tmp/test.sh && time /tmp/test.sh
    Hello
    /tmp/test.sh  0.00s user 0.00s system 74% cpu 0.009 total
    Hello
    /tmp/test.sh  0.00s user 0.00s system 75% cpu 0.007 total
Is it possible that Allan Odgaard, as good a programmer as he unquestionably is, has something configured suboptimally on his end? Because it just strikes me as super unlikely that Apple has modified all the Unix shells on macOS to send shell scripts off to be notarized. (From what I've read, while shell scripts can be signed, they can't be notarized, and Gatekeeper is not invoked when you run a shell script in Terminal -- although it is invoked if you launch a "quaurantined" shell script from Finder on the first run, but it treats the shell script as an "executable document." This is the way this has worked for years, as I can find references to it in books from 2014.)

I have my complaints with macOS Catalina, and I know that Apple's "tighten all the screws" approach to security is anathema to a lot of developers (and if there was a big switch that I could click to disable it all, I probably would), but I'm using Macs running Catalina every day and I gotta admit, they just don't seem to be the dystopian, unlivable hellscape HN keeps telling me they are. At least off the top of my head, I can't think of anything I was doing on my Macs ten years ago that I can't do on my Macs today. ("Yes, but doing it today requires an extra step on the first run that it didn't used to" may be inconvenient, but that's not the same thing as an inability to perform a function -- and an awful lot of complaints about modern Macs seem to be "the security makes this less convenient." There's an argument to be had about whether Catalina's security model strikes the right balance, of course.)

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#212

Post by sorryitstrue »

An issue I've been dealing with forever on my mbp 2013 is the machine just pausing input for 2-4 secs (video and audio don't hitch, just keyboard/mouse input).

I recently took the trouble to completely wipe the disk and reinstall macos mojave and it's still happening so it's not due to cruft installed over time in OSX. I dunno. I'll deal with it until it gives up the ghost and probably move to a windows machine with the work they're putting into WSL2

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#213

Post by kristopolous »

halotrope wrote: post #97

I am using Ubuntu 20.04 on a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen2 and you would be surprised how "normal" it feels as a development machine. Sure there some little annoyances, the touchpad behaves a little worse than on windows, sound is a little worse. But the most important things, Keyboard and Screen are excellent. The system in general does not feel like the horror stories that people keep telling about linux on desktop(note…

I've been seeing the trajectory of Windows (pre-2012 or so) -> Mac (2012 - ~2019 or so) -> Linux (~2018 - now) play out with quite a few people without any issues.

And I don't mean developers. They're all pretty educated people but it's taken me by surprise. They come to me in frustration over Mac, they don't want to return to Windows and they really, really, really want linux. I've been using linux since about 1997 so they come to me. I usually push back, thinking "do you really want a unix workstation?!" but they insist.

My strategy has been some x2xx lenovo (like x230 or so) for about $300 from ebay, 8/16gb of ram or so with an SSD, the extended battery pack, putting mint on it and then just handing it over. Everyone, much to my continued surprise, has loved it and are really happy with it.

It's happened 4 times now and I'm still shocked every time. They've told me they use youtube to figure things out.

They're fine with libreoffice, gimp does what they need, supposedly spotify works on it fine, they don't know what bash or the kernel is and it's all fine. Incredible.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#214

Post by hota_mazi »

kar1181 wrote: post #27

I completely understand why things are going the way they are as our computing environment has become ever more hostile. But I am very nostalgic for the time where I would power up a Vic-20 and within seconds be able to get to work. Teaching my daughter to program on a modern computer, we spend more time bootstrapping and in process, than we do in actual development.

It takes less than five seconds for my Windows 10 to go from asleep to ready for work, and that includes logging in with Windows Hello (the fingerprint reading is crazy fast).

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#215

Post by JadeNB »

davidvartan wrote: post #141
scottlamb wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way to avoid this behavior is to staple the notarization ticket to your bundle (or dmg/pkg) Maybe in some cases, but the article says "even if you write a one line shell script and run it in a terminal, you will get a delay!" Shell scripts don't come in bundles. I don't think this kind of stapling is possible for them? I don't think it'd be reasonable to expect users to do this anyway.

The Gatekeeper behavior is specific to running things from Finder (not Terminal), and only if you downloaded it via a browser that sets the com.apple.quarantine xattr. Two posts from Apple dev support (Cmd+F "eskimo") describe this in more detail. https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/127709 https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/127694

> The Gatekeeper behavior is specific to running things from Finder (not Terminal), and only if you downloaded it via a browser that sets the com.apple.quarantine xattr.

The article says the described problem isn't limited in this way:

> This is not just for files downloaded from the internet, nor is it only when you launch them via Finder, this is everything. So even if you write a one line shell script and run it in a terminal, you will get a delay!

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#216

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

karatestomp wrote: post #120
tragomaskhalos wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That computers are just slower to interact with now is such a truism that we hardly remark upon it any more. It seems utterly insane that in the early 90's I could just run Windows 3.1 on a bit of kit that in all likelihood wouldn't even power a toaster today, and the experience was, well, frictionless. I don't recall ever thinking "wtf is this thing doing ?", whereas today, by contrast, if I have the audacity to be…

I remember being able to watch network traffic and if you (or some other actual person on you network) weren't doing anything nothing would be there . Yes even if you had a few webpages open but weren't clicking anything. Now your machine's "idle" and you capture on your network interface and it scrolls at hyperspeed.

This is upsetting for me, too. And for a few others. But actually very few people care because they just don't see it. The people who designed it this way take care that users at large have no idea what is going on.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#217

Post by enriquto »

lallysingh wrote: post #80
gouggoug wrote: post #57

I experienced this one day while tethering in the train. I was coding and running `go build` multiple times. I could not for the life of me understand why go build would take upwards to 30 seconds to run and sometimes 100ms. I finally realized it was related to my internet connection being extremely spotty. I went online and searched if anybody had the same experience with `go build` but couldn't find anything. I fin…

Does it work at all when unconnected?

There seems to be a delay of about 5 seconds, then it "gives up" trying to notarize your program .

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#218

Post by ksec »

marcinzm wrote: post #3

If Microsoft wasn't doing ever worse privacy things with Windows I'd seriously look into switching away from Mac OS given the ever growing issues it's been having with every release.

That has been my view as well. It isn't Apple that is particularly good with anything Software ( I will give them they have an Edge in UX ). But Microsoft is just horribly bad every time I look at it makes macOS looks good.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#219

Post by gmanley »

ehutch79 wrote: post #53
Nextgrid wrote: post #19

I've been forced to update to this pile of shit because latest iOS requires latest Xcode which in turn requires Catalina. It's a nightmare. First off the new apps (music, podcasts, etc) are terrible. They killed off iTunes but replaced it with much worse. These apps don't behave like standard macOS apps, the UI is full of inconsistencies and is just so empty. This website has nice examples of the failures of modern M…

Have you actually done anything to try and fix these issues? Because this is not typical I use 1password and it doesn't take 5 seconds to open. Did I accidently install linux or something? because since it's the OS causing your delay it would be causing me to have the same delay. xcode installs just fine for my entire team. Just did the update myself, worked just fine. I plug into a dock and undock constantly during…

What makes you think that your experience is the typical one? I've had these problems as well and so have a lot of people I've talked too. Obviously that's just more anecdotes and doesn't prove anything but neither does your comment.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#220

Post by ken »

saagarjha wrote: post #147
egorfine wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are caching based on inode, this will not invalidate the cache. Do cp test.sh test2.sh and try again.

I feel like cp might do an APFS CoW and this might still cause problems…

No, even "cp -c" creates a new inode.
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