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Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

blog.timescale.com

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Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#51
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Timescale CEO and post author) You are spot on. Before the Timescale License, we were left with a tough decision: do we open-source a feature so that everyone can have it for free OR do we close a feature so that the mega-clouds don't have access to it? We didn't like either of those options, which is why we created the Timescale License, which allows us to offer capabilities for free (and make the source code avail…

I'm a huge fan of Splunk but always want to keep my eye open for alternatives. My use case is mostly security analytics against event content and patterns, and for that the Splunk Processing Language is very well suited. That said I find it's fairly tedious to do a lot of time-series analysis and pattern discovery/anomaly detction across rich event models (think aws cloudtrail events). Anything TimescaleDB can help w…

Yes, we hear Splunk complaints quite often. :)

Here is a doc on using TimescaleDB as a horizontally-scalable, easy-to-deploy, operationally-mature data store for Prometheus data (i.e., metrics), put together by another of our engineering teams:

Building an open-source analytical platform for Prometheus

https://tsdb.co/prom-design-doc

I'm also happy to discuss privately if you'd prefer - ajay (at) timescale.com.

Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#52

How does TimescaleDB work as a traditional OLTP db? Can I run general analytical queries on it and leverage its distributed nature? Or is it better for single table append only workloads?

The Hypertables and Distributed Hypertables can be used to store any kind of data, but works best as long as it has a monotonously increasing partitioning key (e.g. time), with high ingest load, few data modifications (preferable bulked)

The beauty of TimescaleDB being built on Postgres is you can have your regular Postgres tables (OLTP schema) and time-series data (Hypertables) live side by side. Use 1 language (1 mindset) to query them, join them, work with them as you see fit. With Distributed Hypertables (what the post is about) you can now partition your data to live across multiple servers, and still use your 1 mindset to query all that data.

edit: With the preferred workload you get the most out of TimescaleDBs advanced features like compression, continuous aggregates and data retention policies. You can use the aggregates to build complex auto-updating materialized views that are automatically used even when you query the raw tables also (https://docs.timescale.com/latest/using-timescaledb/continuo...)

Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#53
post #4

This is an interesting window into their business model. This could be a purely an altruistic decision, which businesses sometimes do, contrary to popular belief. More likely it's a bet that wider adoption from making the clustered version free will drive more revenue through their managed database as a service offering. Which shows that their non-OSI open-source license is actually leading to more code and features…

I kind of agree.

The argument of go 100% FOSS or not reminds me of the argument of free market vs regulation. Yes a free market sounds ideal, but in practice, a few major players take advantage and everyone who isn't them is left out in the cold.

The same applies to FOSS vs Proprietary software. If everyone did FOSS to the fullest extent, and anyone building products on FOSS made their product 100% FOSS, then it wouldn't be nearly as big a deal if Amazon took TimescaleDB and sold it, because anything they did would be available to everyone else.

But that isn't how it works. They just wait until a market establishes itself and swoop in and do something someone else is already doing successfully, but better by using their massive resources behind it. Honestly it's a lot like embrace, extend, extinguish. I'm not saying this to shit on Amazon, I don't necessarily think it's intentionally malicious, it just often ends up hurting a lot of organizations building FOSS.

I think of it this way: A lot of people agree that tech giants are increasingly becoming more powerful as they expand their reach, often due to their ability to simply buy or kill the competition through undercutting with their massive cash stockpiles accumulated through their primary business.

For FOSS, it is the same strategy except the competition isn't being "bought", it's simply being taken (FOSS) and made into something "better" with their nearly unlimited resources, and then undercutting the original proprietors.

Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#54

I understand that the Timescale license can't be utilized by cloud providers, but what about others who need a timeseries database for their SaaS offering? Is this permitted as long as you aren't marketing a hosted TimescaleDB solution? Edit: wording

That would be permitted, as long as the service isn't just a "TimescaleDB-as-a-service." [0] For example, if the service allowed users to only make DML changes (access / modify data) then it is ok, but DDL changes (creating / modifying database schemas) is not permitted. In fact, we already have 100s of SaaS companies using TimescaleDB as part of their offering. [0] https://www.timescale.com/legal/licenses

Thanks akulkarni, this is great!

Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#55

> All of these capabilities are being released under the Timescale License, our source-available license that permits broad usage, except for where organizations are providing TimescaleDB-as-a-service. Maybe someone can give clarification on this, but the line between using TimescaleDB to build a product and providing TimescaleDB-as-a-service seems incredibly blurry. If I have a product that in some way let's you que…

Hi @malisper, we totally appreciate concerns around potential uncertainty what a "Value Added Service" means.

In fact, when we were looking at Timescale licensing, we took careful look at what a lot of other like company licenses did here (Confluent, Redis, etc), and what later became the Polyform License. Most of them left this definition pretty vague -- because frankly, legal language is never as precise (and perhaps shouldn't be) as what an engineer may like.

We went a step further, and tried to define this more precisely about what it means to "offer" TimescaleDB:

      (iii) users of such Value Added Products or Services are prohibited,
      either contractually or technically, from defining, redefining, or
      modifying the database schema or other structural aspects of database
      objects, such as through use of the Timescale Data Definition Interfaces,
      in a Timescale Database utilized by such Value Added Products or
      Services.
[def] https://github.com/timescale/timescaledb/blob/master/tsl/LIC...

What that means is that if you've defined the Heap schema, you have built the indexes and tables, and then are offering a SaaS product on this, you're fine:

- You are offering a product/marketing SaaS service around usage/product analytics, not a time-series-database-as-a-service

- You are not approaching the market and saying, "Here's how to get TimescaleDB-as-a-service" (unlike, say, Managed TimescaleDB running on Rackspace or Digital Ocean), you are saying "Here's a full Product/Marketing Analytics Solution".

- You are not giving your users direct/psql access to the raw database to define their tables/schemas/indexes and otherwise just treat that service as a hosted TimescaleDB instance.

I hope that helps!

Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#57

Hi, I authored this post, but the credit really goes to the Timescale database team. Multi-node TimescaleDB is the result of a massive amount of engineering effort over two years, as can be seen in this +67,000 line PR: https://github.com/timescale/timescaledb/pull/1923 We're thrilled to make this free so that more developers can use it.

Am i the only one who thinks it is really cool that this will be free but hesitant to use it?

I have seen so many distributed data storages fail in a multitude of ways that i just dont trust anyone anymore. After 2-3 years they may have ironed out most bugs and i can evaluate again whether i do trust their implementation to store my data safely.

Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#58
post #36
post #4

This is an interesting window into their business model. This could be a purely an altruistic decision, which businesses sometimes do, contrary to popular belief. More likely it's a bet that wider adoption from making the clustered version free will drive more revenue through their managed database as a service offering. Which shows that their non-OSI open-source license is actually leading to more code and features…

I think you are being a bit generous on the causes and effects. The #1 concern of a product like this is adoption. Not in some unsustainable subsidized taxi or food delivery type thing, just that data stores are naturally sticky and come with long term opportunity as usage grows. If they dominate the time series use case, and there is good reason to believe they will, earning revenues will fall out of that in a multi…

I don't think it's FOSS+support, more like a cloud database service offering. Time will tell I suppose as to which business model dominates. And one could make the argument the service is a form of support.

Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#59

Awesome. I just hope that one day Amazon supports it on RDS. I do know that Digital Ocean does!

I was hoping that too but I think Amazon is still working on their time series database[1]. We registered for their preview in 2018 and it's still in preview with no access.

[1]https://aws.amazon.com/timestream/

Re: Multi-node TimescaleDB is now free

#60
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sounds like open source to me, I bet they're just being really conservative about saying "open source" because people there's been so much backlash at MongoDB/Cockroach/etc for similar restrictions. Open Source has a very defined meaning. Please read up on the history of open source and source available licenses before saying it is all the same. We've been defending it against a number of attacks and we will p…

Frankly the pedantry around the definition of Open Source, which I understand, is incredibly nauseating. Sure, this isn't Open Source by "the definition", but it's close enough if you squint. The difference doesn't impact almost anyone. Are you or someone you love impacted by this licensing decision? Throw in an expiry date, dual licensing (pay to play seems more than fair) and I'm content. History be damned. I'm so…

Yep. I've been putting code out for free (MIT) for over a decade. I'm an open source developer. But I'll decide what gatekeeping I participate in for myself thank you

Maybe we just need to have "little O" open source. Unless someone's saying "Open Source" don't get in on splitting these hairs

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