Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now • Hacker News Board

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#51

Post by TorbjornLunde » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:34 PM UTC

gritzko wrote: post #44

BvS wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a documentary about Chernobyl yesterday ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o ) an although it's obviously a little sensationalist/emotional I have a really hard time having any respect for people claiming it didn't have that much impact. Fukushima is very different but I agree with others that we should wait at least a couple of weeks till we make any conclusions Speaking of jumping to conclusions:…

> Speaking of jumping to conclusions: Germany just started to shut down 7 nuclear power plants because of Fukushima... 100% pure green hysteria. ~10.000 died because of the tsunami. Who died because of Fukushima? None so far.

We can control whether we use nuclear power or not. Controlling nature is a little harder.

(Though I agree that shutting down power plants in Germany right now is illogical.)

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#52

Post by Tichy » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:37 PM UTC

dublinclontarf wrote: post #33

BvS wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a documentary about Chernobyl yesterday ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o ) an although it's obviously a little sensationalist/emotional I have a really hard time having any respect for people claiming it didn't have that much impact. Fukushima is very different but I agree with others that we should wait at least a couple of weeks till we make any conclusions Speaking of jumping to conclusions:…

Chernobyl wasn't as bad as has been made out to be. In total around 50 deaths are directly attributable to radiation exposure(firemen and resue workers). 4'000 children contracted thyroid cancer as a result but with nearly a 99% recovery rate. In terms of cancers or birth defects there have been no increases over the average in effected areas. Seriously, study after study by various international organisations have c…

And for years strawberries, mushrooms and deer were off limits on the food table. Sure maybe that pales compared to actual deaths, but it didn't help to endear nuclear power to my heart.

Of course other power sources pollute the environment, too, but they can be improved as well, for example by installing better filters.

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#53

Post by khafra » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:37 PM UTC

gritzko wrote: post #44

BvS wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a documentary about Chernobyl yesterday ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o ) an although it's obviously a little sensationalist/emotional I have a really hard time having any respect for people claiming it didn't have that much impact. Fukushima is very different but I agree with others that we should wait at least a couple of weeks till we make any conclusions Speaking of jumping to conclusions:…

> Speaking of jumping to conclusions: Germany just started to shut down 7 nuclear power plants because of Fukushima... 100% pure green hysteria. ~10.000 died because of the tsunami. Who died because of Fukushima? None so far.

The hysterics don't turn green until they're actually exposed to toxic waste. I think this is plain old hysteria; many environmentalists are all about nuclear power because the alternatives are coal, oil, or hunter/gatherer at 1/1000th the world's current population.

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#54

Post by Tichy » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:37 PM UTC

gritzko wrote: post #44

BvS wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a documentary about Chernobyl yesterday ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o ) an although it's obviously a little sensationalist/emotional I have a really hard time having any respect for people claiming it didn't have that much impact. Fukushima is very different but I agree with others that we should wait at least a couple of weeks till we make any conclusions Speaking of jumping to conclusions:…

> Speaking of jumping to conclusions: Germany just started to shut down 7 nuclear power plants because of Fukushima... 100% pure green hysteria. ~10.000 died because of the tsunami. Who died because of Fukushima? None so far.

Well there is cheap living space available around Fukushima right now. Would you care to move there?

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#55

Post by Tichy » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:39 PM UTC

I hope the pro-nuclear power people are right when they claim everything went according to plan. But forgive me if I am not used to "everything is under control" looking like this on TV (explosions, people in protection suits and gas masks, mass exodus).

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#56

Post by dublinclontarf » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:40 PM UTC

bluedanieru wrote: post #34

dublinclontarf wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly within a few weeks, armies of anti-nuclear campainers, writers, and politicians will have jumped on this and pumped it so through the roof that, even if everything in this article is correct most people won't listen. Look at Chernobyl or Three Mile Island (study after study found no major exposure by anyone). The hysteria over this is caused by the anti-nuclear people and groups trying to use this as a case aga…

Just a quick point of order: study after study on Chernobyl found major exposure by just about everyone . It was serious business. This is where, without any containment vessel at all, the fuel caught fire and the radioactive ash spread all over the place. But you are right about Three-Mile Island.

Yes there was exposure, certainly those 4000 children recieved high enough levels. However this is a far cry of hundreds of thousands of dangerous exposures, massive increases of cancer rates and birth defects that are still happening that most people think of.

I myself thought just that until recently after investigating it.

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#57

Post by woodson » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:40 PM UTC

BvS wrote: post #14

_delirium wrote: post #2

At Chernobyl, this actually happened inside the containment vessel and the resulting explosion ruptured the vessel, leading to a serious release of core radioactives – though this has had basically zero effect on the world in general nor even much impact on the area around Chernobyl. Even just as a matter of rhetoric and persuasion, I think trying to argue that Chernobyl wasn't all that bad isn't the route you want t…

I watched a documentary about Chernobyl yesterday ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o ) an although it's obviously a little sensationalist/emotional I have a really hard time having any respect for people claiming it didn't have that much impact. Fukushima is very different but I agree with others that we should wait at least a couple of weeks till we make any conclusions Speaking of jumping to conclusions:…

> Speaking of jumping to conclusions: Germany just started to shut down 7 nuclear power plants because of Fukushima...

Not because of Fukushima, but pending elections..

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#58

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:40 PM UTC

dublinclontarf wrote: post #29

antirez wrote: post #5

Enough articles "everything is fine" for my tastes circulating onto Hacker News, while instead the facts created more and more concerns. I think it's better to just wait, and hope, instead of blabling about things that even the top experts of the world are having an hard time to figure. There will be a time, in a few weeks, and hopefully after a disaster was avoided, to speculate about the real security of nuke power…

Sadly within a few weeks, armies of anti-nuclear campainers, writers, and politicians will have jumped on this and pumped it so through the roof that, even if everything in this article is correct most people won't listen. Look at Chernobyl or Three Mile Island (study after study found no major exposure by anyone). The hysteria over this is caused by the anti-nuclear people and groups trying to use this as a case aga…

[deleted]

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#59

Post by khafra » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:43 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #46

jbri wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can click the "link" button next to the comment header to get a reply box regardless. Regarding this "wisdom of the crowds" crap, does the presence of a lynch mob indicate that someone was actually guilty? If masses of people swear by a medical treatment, does that magically mean it's not a placebo? Crowds are dumb . The only time you want to follow the "wisdom of the crowd" is when the crowd is your marketable c…

> Crowds are dumb. The only time you want to follow the "wisdom of the crowd" is when the crowd is your marketable commodity. We're settled, then, because this is where we disagree :) I believe in the power of the people of taking decisions for themselves (even if the decisions are dumb), while you suggest than an informed elite should have the upper hand (if I read you correctly). I could go on and on about why I be…

If you're saying that mob rule has the power to irrationally stop nuclear power production, I agree with you.

If you're saying this is the way things ought to be, I'm not sure if I agree but I think you have a valid point about the democratic form of government.

If you're saying a dumb herd of people's panicky reactions to a scary situation actually mean nuclear power is more dangerous than other forms, you're dead wrong.

I don't think other people here understand which of these arguments you're making, either.

Re: Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now

#60

Post by kmfrk » Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 12:46 PM UTC

dublinclontarf wrote: post #29

antirez wrote: post #5

Enough articles "everything is fine" for my tastes circulating onto Hacker News, while instead the facts created more and more concerns. I think it's better to just wait, and hope, instead of blabling about things that even the top experts of the world are having an hard time to figure. There will be a time, in a few weeks, and hopefully after a disaster was avoided, to speculate about the real security of nuke power…

Sadly within a few weeks, armies of anti-nuclear campainers, writers, and politicians will have jumped on this and pumped it so through the roof that, even if everything in this article is correct most people won't listen. Look at Chernobyl or Three Mile Island (study after study found no major exposure by anyone). The hysteria over this is caused by the anti-nuclear people and groups trying to use this as a case aga…

>Sadly within a few weeks, armies of anti-nuclear campainers, writers, and politicians will have jumped on this and pumped it so through the roof that, even if everything in this article is correct most people won't listen.

NYT, Guardian, Spiegel, Mother Jones, The Atlantic (every online publication there is), every news TV channel (except Al Jazeera). Greenpeace are all over the place with their campaigning.

The hysteria isn't imminent - it's happening right now. If people don't fight the campaign to stop nuclear energy, the factoids are going to dominate the discourse in many years to come.