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The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

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Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#71
post #68

From a comment in the source > ORIGINALLY WRITTEN ON THE PDP-10 FROM FEBRUARY 9 TO APRIL 9 1975 Wow! I did not realize that it was written so quickly. Two months that literally changed the PC landscape forever.

For one person working 8 hours a day, that's roughly one line of assembly language per minute. If you know assembly language, and you know the algorithms you're implementing, that doesn't seem especially fast.

You find me someone who can code assembly for 8 hours a day continuously for two months and I'll hire them on the spot.

Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#73
post #54

Poked around a fair bit. Didn't find any hint what the GW is/was supposed to stand for. Micro-soft BASIC on Apple ][, as on other 8-bit targets, infamously did a linear search from the beginning of the program to locate the target of a GOTO or GOSUB statement, so that programs ran faster if frequently called subroutines (what we now call functions) were close to the front. I wonder if or when that behavior was ever c…

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Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#74
IBM had their own Basic, 4 of them really (collectively called IBM Basic) that was a barrier for the clones[1] (eg, Compaq, Dell, etc) because they wouldn't license it. (You probably used one of them, basica if you used the classic PC)

Microsoft made GW basic and smited IBM by putting it on the clones Except for the IBM machines. They also intentionally made it slightly incompatible with IBM's basic. Then they held the GW basic source hostage so IBM couldn't resolve the inconsistencies, couldn't backwards engineer it because of the licensing, and thus put them at a losing negotiating position since Microsoft now called the shots because they controlled the software. (I wonder if this slight is in the comments, let me go look, that'd be great[2])

Microsoft also held the DOS source code hostage and it was a huge stickling point in the OS/2 and Windows work and was a significant reason Microsoft was able to steal the show from IBM. IBM even sent over a bunch of engineers to get DOS 2 to work because DOS 1.1 was a complete mess. But they didn't have the rights to walk out the building with the source they wrote due to a contract oversight.

Bill Gates was a true software Napoleon, it's really quite something.

Now they're releasing all of it. It's a strange coincidence to pick the three they burned IBM with 35 years ago...

Maybe they're trying to shake off the old days, maybe they're putting a final stick in IBMs eye, maybe it's genuinely unrelated, who knows.

Smacking around IBM is my preferred reading because the idea of doing one final power play, against IBM for God sakes, 25 years after it became unarguably 100% meaningless with the release of Windows 95, I personally find hilarious.

---

[1] The only source code left in the timeline we don't have is Phoenix, who cleanroom cloned IBM's BIOS in 1983 (using a Chinese Wall) which allowed the clones to really take off. But they've been pieced off and sold as a fleamarket to HPE, Absolute, and Marlin, so who knows when we'll see that source.

[2] I'm going to make the bold claim (after 10 minutes of poking) and say either they removed the incriminating things or the claimed intentionality of the incompatibility is now provably just a rumor (as in they lucked into it through implementing an imperfect clone)

There's evidence for both I guess. For instance, GIOCOM.ASM has a reference:

COMPAQ=0 ;Include IBM 1.0/1.1 Bugs for compatibility

But this isn't cited anywhere else. It's just hanging. They have a bunch of other vendor specific things like ZENITH, TSHIBA, they all have logic, this one is absent any logic, it's just an orphan. Shrug...

I just tweeted @ BillG and asked him --- snowballs' chance he'll respond but who knows.

Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#75
post #56

The funny thing about this announcement is that a week ago I just found my old QBASIC textbook that I learned how to program with back in 1998. QBASIC was my very first programming language; I was a nine year old kid who loved computers and would read anything computer-related that was available, including my mom's textbooks (she was returning to college at the time and took some courses on computing and applications…

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Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#76
post #69

Wow, what a blast from the past. I learned to program with BASICA.EXE and GW-BASIC as a kid in the late 80's. I just noticed that microsoft has also released the source to MS-DOS 2.0: https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS I don't think I ever imagined that I'd be able to "look behind the curtain" like this, let alone that Microsoft would come to embrace open source. From there I moved on to Turbo Pascal 3.0, and then B…

Similar story, learned to program using GWBASIC and loved figuring out how to recreate Conway's Game of Life, fern fractals, etc on my own. Though 25 years later can't pass FAANG whiteboard interviews with just an EE degree!

> Though 25 years later can't pass FAANG whiteboard interviews with just an EE degree!

Nor could I. But I think that's ok.

I remember trying to make a game using a BASIC interpreter on Sinclair ZX80 Soviet clone and failing. Yet, here we are on HN taking about tech and leading lives in tech, whatever that means for us.

I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm glad for that experience and where it got me. And, I guess, I'm glad that you're here as well, stranger.

Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#77
post #6

This is great! But it makes me think that Microsoft need to add a BASIC compiler as standard in all Windows distributions. They did that Small Basic thing a while back, but it was too encumbered in .NET-isms, a kind of Visual Basic .NET lite. It would be great if there was just a easy to understand BASIC that you could hack away with that could produce interesting programs without the .NET cruft or the barrier that i…

It's too bad Microsoft QuickBASIC isn't a thing anymore. Who didn't love GORILLAS.BAS?

Old-timer geeky note: ah I think you meant QBasic? The Basic that was included in MS-DOS 5.0?

"QuickBasic" was the commercial compiler (like QuickC and QuickPascal), whereas "QBasic" was the stripped down IDE with interpreter that a Gorilla throwing bananas based on physics.

Memories.

Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#78
very cool.

> When writing software for early PCs, every single byte and every single instruction mattered, so developers often wrote code entirely in assembly language simply to be able to physically fit their software into the available memory, and to be able to access the computer’s resources and internal workings.

This made me a bit sad. Imagine how fast things could be today if developers still had this mindset. Of course I wouldn't advocate writing everything in ASM, but the adage that computers are fast, write inefficient code...is disappointing to say the least.

Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#79

From a comment in the source > ORIGINALLY WRITTEN ON THE PDP-10 FROM FEBRUARY 9 TO APRIL 9 1975 Wow! I did not realize that it was written so quickly. Two months that literally changed the PC landscape forever.

Well...remember it is 'just' a BASIC interpreter. Woz wrote Apple integer BASIC in the evenings while working at HP in just a few months. Guys were writing crazy stuff at the time. The original version of DOS that Microsoft bought to license to IBM for the PC was written in 6 weeks.

>The original version of DOS that Microsoft bought to license to IBM for the PC was written in 6 weeks.

Is this actually true? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Paterson

When a book appeared in 2004 claiming that 86-DOS was an unoriginal "rip-off" of CP/M,[6] Paterson sued the authors and publishers for defamation.[7][8] The judge found that Paterson failed to provide any evidence regarding "serious doubts" about the accuracy of the Gary Kildall chapter.

Re: The original source code of Microsoft GW-BASIC from 1983

#80
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! QuickBasic 4.5 was my jam! I used to churn out apps with that left and right.

I loved QuickBasic 4.5! It could compile programs to .EXE files ;) And from there, once you hit QuickBasic's limitations, it was a small step to Turbo Pascal or Borland C!

It’s about time MS open sourced QuickBasic or at the very least released it as abandonware.
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