UBI is inevitable. Like software development, whoever makes it first will win and bring us closer to our Star Trekian furute.
Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
381–390 of 746 posts
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not bad, it just misses a lot of the benefit of 'basic' income. For example, my wife had just finished her education and was looking for a job when COVID hit. She's randomly just as hosed as everyone that actually lost an existing job, but qualifies for none of the same relief. The benefit of the 'universal basic' part of UBI is that it just washes away all edge cases, and it's pretty hard to feel like you've be…
Andrew Yang's Humanity Forward organization is not the nation's government. They don't have the resources to make something universal. That's one of the reasons he ran for president, was so he could do that. The people weren't ready this time, but maybe in 4 years, when he's probably going to run again, they'll be more willing to give him a shot. But right now he is doing what he can and working with much, much more…
I think the point is that giving 250 on 20,000 people is a poor way to " build the case for a universal basic income".
It is not a test case for any of the purported advantages for UBI, and actively undermines many of the fundamental principles of UBI.
Hell, the money would be better spent on lobbying.
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#383Technically speaking , many European countries already have "Basic Income". ( France , Sweden , Norway...) They are reserved for individuals "Not Active" though ( Unemployed and not looking for a Job ) over a certain age. Those "BI" massively lower poverty , which usually massively reduce crime-rate , drugs related usage etc... With 700€/Month you aren't gonna far anyway, you have enaugh for food and rent , and that'…
> With 700€/Month you aren't gonna far anyway, you have enaugh for food and rent , and that's it... Contingent benefits disincentivize people from participating in the economy. People paid to do nothing... do nothing. > For America it's different, America cannot technically afford "BI" because the entirety of the US economy has been built on having 20% of the population living under the poverty line in order for good…
> Contingent benefits disincentivize people from participating in the economy. People paid to do nothing... do nothing.
That's, at best, highly debatable. I would like data showing that (or the opposite)
> Under any economic regime there will be a poorest 20% at any given time.
That's not what "20% of the population living under the poverty line" means. It means that 20% of people don't earn enough to live decently, which is highly dependent on the economic regime
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why shouldn't cash be the benchmark when it comes to aiding poor folks? If giving food or shelter really is more helpful than just giving the equivalent cost in cold hard cash, that will be quite interesting. But let's see the proof of that.
They don't have the financial literacy skills to manage it properly. I'm not trying to be unreasonably judgemental, and I don't mean things like bond rates or yield curves. Things like making sure you have enough dollars at the end of the month to make a rent payment. Making sure the check gets written so it actually happens. Keeping track of automated withdrawals and ensuring the number stays above zero with the tim…
I believe this has been debunked by previous UBI studies, Give Directly, etc..
The vast majority of poor people do just fine with money when given to them. The 1-2% who are addicted to substances or mentally ill will always need additional services, but why throw out the huge efficiency gains in just direct cash transfers to all because of the worry that 1-2% might waste it? The efficiency gains of a UBI vs. most means-tested programs is likely more on the order of 20-50%.
A similar argument is “would we give a UBI to billionaires too?! What a waste!” Yes, what a waste of 0.0000003% of the UBI!
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#385Technically speaking , many European countries already have "Basic Income". ( France , Sweden , Norway...) They are reserved for individuals "Not Active" though ( Unemployed and not looking for a Job ) over a certain age. Those "BI" massively lower poverty , which usually massively reduce crime-rate , drugs related usage etc... With 700€/Month you aren't gonna far anyway, you have enaugh for food and rent , and that'…
> Technically speaking , many European countries already have "Basic Income". ( France , Sweden , Norway...)
Are you talking about welfare? Because that's far from universal. I might have misunderstood you so if you can clarify.
> it's common in Italy and Spain as well IIRC.
Have you got any sources on these claims about France, Italy and Spain? Never heard of this.
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#386>> Yang says Humanity Forward plans to immediately distribute Dorsey’s contribution in the form of small cash grants of $250 to nearly 20,000 people who’ve lost their jobs or taken an economic hit as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic So money based on certain non-universal conditions? Isn't this one of the root problems? People cannot accept a truly universal system - you've already got too much; that guy lives in th…
This is way for Yang to stay in the public eye and Dorsey to burnish his image with the progressive crowd while simultaneously amplifying the worst of the far right in his day job.
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#387UBI only makes sense in the science fiction world that Andrew Yang and other non-technical journalists think is somehow imminent. We still need people to make things. There are still guys hanging off the side of garbage trucks every day and people still pick fruits by hand. If no one does these things, you will starve and die. We cannot survive forever on financial engineering by bureaucrats and importing all our nec…
It doesn't replace people making things, though. You'd still want to work and create value to improve your situation. It'd just function as a floor and provide some stability. Bearing in mind the increasing rate of job destruction and creation. We're no longer in a world where you can rely on being able to have the same profession your whole life. Having that floor would be useful to smooth those transitions out, and…
There are countries with a permanent dole. See the UK and other Northern Euro nations. You just have to fake an autism diagnosis to get $3k euros a month in cash alone (not counting all the other programs). Why isn't that the entrepreneurship capital of the world? Why is Europe still so poor? Why is America--the only place where there isn't a safety net and you can literally die on the street if you make too many bad decisions--the entrepreneurship capital of the world? Lots of businesses have been founded by people desperate to make a buck. Necessity is the mother of all invention. People take risks out of desperation, not for "fun".
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#388If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist while drastically raising taxes on my earnings from employment then I'll simply stop working. I would imagine most people would do the same.
> If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist .... then I'll simply stop working
Australia has been doing it for decades. They have low unemployment. Your hypothesis is not borne out in real life.
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
> With 700€/Month you aren't gonna far anyway, you have enaugh for food and rent , and that's it... Contingent benefits disincentivize people from participating in the economy. People paid to do nothing... do nothing. > For America it's different, America cannot technically afford "BI" because the entirety of the US economy has been built on having 20% of the population living under the poverty line in order for good…
> Propaganda. Nope it’s not. In order for welfare to be « legalized » , and for taxpayer to accept that their money will go to «Non-Active» individuals it’s necessary to have a cultural fit between the two. You cant tax like Norway or France ( 40% overall ) if people believe that you should work to earn a living, it’s not right to do so. American would never accept such sky high taxe rate if it cause against their be…
A very high progressive tax is compatible with the belief that people should work to earn a living. If I have a lot of money, I can invest it and for almost no work grow my wealth or get another income stream. How is that fair? And why does this observation often get left behind?
Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income
#390I don't understand the optimism around UBI. UBI is a band-aid and a sign that a system is actually failing. I get why some people, especially intellectuals, want UBI, but they seem to believe that UBI is free of consequence. If society "needs" UBI, that means that not enough people can build wealth or that the welfare system isn't effective. Handing people money isn't going to change the fact that too much of the eco…
> because they effectively own their oil industry Why can't we, as a society, come together and take ownership of our data, and sell it back to the companies using our data for profit?
The companies that own our data subsidize their collection of it. In other words, we get to use Facebook, Google, etc for free, and we pay them with our data instead of with money.
When you own land with oil, you need to buy/rent the equipment to drill it and deliver it. With data, all that is free for the end user.
Now the real scam are companies that both charge you to use their product and then make money off the data they collect as a result.