Live data from Hacker News

Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

theverge.com

391–400 of 577 posts

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#391
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that isn’t true about HEIC. There isn’t a license fee.

HEIC is based on H.265, so there is a whole separate organization dedicated licensing and litigating its patents.

No? It’s an ISO standard that’s separate from H.265. Maybe you’re thinking of HEVC, which is like that. (Alternatively I’m wrong, which is totally possible)

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I think there's an argument to be made software should ignore file extensions whenever possible. Is really that hard for the backend to check if the file starts with "\xFF\xD8\xFF\xE0\0\x10JFIF\0\1" or "\x89PNG\r\n\x1A\n"? That would have caught this problem.

Yes, just hardcode what is hopefully the magic bytes for the formats we expect, what could possibly go wrong /s The biggest joke here is that this wouldn't have helped the students either. I don't think any of them will pass the "there is a minute left on the timer and the website tells you your picture isn't JPEG or PNG" challenge.

I did some more research and it looks like I got the one for JPEG wrong, so maybe you have a point.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#393
post #357
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing starts common, you have to start somewhere, and it is an ISO standard format.

A file format, used by one company, isn't going to change the world. JPG and PNG are here to stay. Love it or hate it... they are the lowest common denominator for image formats.

File formats change fast. It was not too long ago PNG was the newcomer, and people were touting how much better it was than GIF for non-photographs (alpha transparency, better compression, etc.). It has been successful, and now almost all applications support it. Same thing with moving from AVI to the MPEG formats in video.

New formats are a good thing, and fast adoption of them is good for users.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#394

It’s amazing to me that so many are blaming Apple. Despite the fact that this site is all about new technology (so ironic!), uploading a photo from an iPhone isn’t exactly an edge case. They should have tested this, and apparently they did enough to send a tweet about it.. as if that’s enough. Clearly the college board dropped the ball in adequately informing people of their not-great workaround, instead of either sp…

Using HEIC apparently [1][2] requires a license and is patent encumbered[3], so I actually blame Apple for using a closed format by default. [1] https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/97036 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17587923 [2] http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/833-HEI...

So what formats do they accept when they want a video? Theora?

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#395
post #86
post #52

While it sounds like the College Board may be at fault for some of the issues, like the test timing out when HEIC images were sent or the initial communication of the issue, I wouldn't be so quick to place all of the blame on them. Part of the problem is how we more-or-less glorify an ignorance of technology. This can be seen in both students trying to change the file type by changing the file extension and JPEG bein…

Ironically the person from the article who attempted converting the HEIC files to JPG by renaming them was taking a Computer Science test.

I have to teach an entire lesson about downloading a file, finding it in the downloads folder, and unzipping it.

Apple did a good job abstracting away the file system.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#396
> tried to convert it by renaming the HEIC file to PNG. Changing a file’s extension does not guarantee that it will be converted, but Spencer was still able to submit the demo test with no problem.

This should really say that changing a file's extension will (almost) never mean that the file is converted.

Anyway, it seems like today's students have missed out on the arcane knowledge of renaming a jpg/mp3/whatever to .docx, submitting it, pretending that it got mysteriously corrupted, and getting an extension until whenever the professor realizes the issue. (I've never done it, but I've heard legend.)

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#397
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Our system broke, you're screwed now, sorry" is never an acceptable answer. That's not what happened at all. The college board admitted their fault and are letting students take the test again. Even without that, they mentioned in their FAQ that JPEGs and PNGs are the only file types acceptable and even sent out a tweet (which should have been an email) a week before especially for iPhone users to let them know how…

If they had enough time to warn people ahead of time, they had plenty of time to push a fix to their system for this. We are literally talking about adding support for one more image format. Emails, tweets, texts are no excuse for broken products. The iPhone is the best selling model in the United States. It is on College Board to support its default image format. Good product design is owning your users' success. It…

> The iPhone is the best selling model in the United States.

That's an interesting (and slightly misleading) way to present that statistic. Apple has the best selling models, but does not have the majority of the market by operating system, which is what matters here. It's close, but Android is still supposed to have over 51% of the US market.[1] (If the graph itself is occluded, see the summary below it).

> It is on College Board to support its default image format.

It's a minority platform. It's only a slight minority, but it is one. If you want to make a case that they should support any default format for a platform over a certain percentage of usage (or "almost half"), that's fine, but you can't rely on the obvious argument that it's the dominant platform and thus should be supported, because it isn't the dominant platform.

Edit: Whoops, forgot to include citation

1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held...

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using HEIC apparently [1][2] requires a license and is patent encumbered[3], so I actually blame Apple for using a closed format by default. [1] https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/97036 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17587923 [2] http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/833-HEI...

First of all, as many others have pointed out by specifying the accepted file formats in the tag, they would avoid HEIC entirely as the phone would simply convert to one of the accepted formats. It's also not clear to me that this patent license is actually an issue in terms of decoding and converting file formats on the backend. Even if that were the case, I'm certain there is some commercial license software they c…

Wait. There's a way to get safari to upload HEIF without conversion? All my photos, which are HEIF on my phone, turn into jpeg when I upload them. I've been trying to get the original HEIF off for months.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#399
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HEIC isn’t a proprietary codec, it’s an ISO standard

But it's built on patented codec (H.265). It's illegal to use it without a patent license, regardless whether it's a standard or not. Even if you wrote your own implementation, it would be illegal for you to use your own code. Technically HEIF is a good format — it's half the size of WebP. WebP is based on a much weaker codec that is two generations older. AVIF is a freely-licensed HEIF alternative.

My understanding (based on http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/833-HEI... ) is that HEIC is not built on patents while HEVC is, so HEVC is problematic to use, but HEIC isn’t.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#400
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had enough time to warn people ahead of time, they had plenty of time to push a fix to their system for this. We are literally talking about adding support for one more image format. Emails, tweets, texts are no excuse for broken products. The iPhone is the best selling model in the United States. It is on College Board to support its default image format. Good product design is owning your users' success. It…

ImageMagick supports HEIC to JPG conversion. It would take at most a few hours to hack together an interim solution.

That support depends on installing or building native libraries (mainly libheif I think) which is not trivial or may be that something developers can't do due to security reasons, also it's different for each platform.
Post reply on HN