Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#181

Post by totemandtoken » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #113

oceanbreeze83 wrote: post #5

For any news junkies heres, I've built https://maagnit.com which gathers both Left and Right leaning sources for any story and displays them altogether on one page. My approach has been, if we can't get neutral/objective coverage, getting comprehensive, 360 desgree coverage is a good alternative. These days, news bias is not only in the way a story is covered, but also which stories are covered. So, maagnit automatic…

Since people here seem to be digging your site (well, those that can access it right now anyway), I'll mention https://www.allsides.com as well. They also add a "center" viewpoint, which yours may do too, but it's getting hugged to hard for me to see right now.

I used allsides.com for my site too. I really like how transparent their process for assigning bias is especially compared to other sites that try to place news on a spectrum. They essentially try to assign a bias by having someone with each political bias assign a rating to the news and then collect how strong the crowd agrees or disagrees to that rating.

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#182

Post by jhelphenstine » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:26 PM UTC

kkotak wrote: post #165

SoylentOrange wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t live in the US, so please take what I’m saying with a grain of salt. I imagine you are a smart and decent person on the other side of this screen. Usually print media is considered higher quality journalism than TV media. There are numerous studies that show reading print media leads to people being more informed than just watching TV news. Whether this is correlation or causation I can’t really say. My under…

Print media is akin to software released on DVDs - a lot more testing (fact checking), approvals (Editorial decisions) need to happen due to the perceived finality of the medium. TV on the other hand is like SaaS - continious integration and deployment. Release first and apologize later if needed.

I think you've got a witty metaphor here, but after mulling it over:

Doesn't CI rely on robust testing to ensure buggy software doesn't make it into production? I'm not sure the fire-and-forget of the 24/7 news cycle lends itself to a comparison to continuous deployment, as there is a strong bias to 'deliver now' given competition to break the news first, and it's hard to build in 'automated testing' (vetting?) of content.

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#183

Post by ineedasername » Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:31 PM UTC

textgel wrote: post #137

ineedasername wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because one side might be more willing to mislead doesn't mean that their stance on a topic is more likely to be the incorrect one. Showing which news sources employ the most underhanded rhetorical devices may be a positive goal in itself, but it doesn't, by itself, help the audience make their own determination on an issue. Even more of an issue is that a viewer's determination of which source is more willing t…

Respectfully; it does. Not 100%, but for the most part it does. The moment you have to lie to make your point you concede that your argument never had a grounding in reality. Even if putting that aside, the utility of bringing to light underhand tactics isn't meant to be used in and by itself but instead serves as one of many aspects of debate to help decide what is right/wrong true/false. Regarding the poor suited n…

I agree that the side that is more deceptive & manipulative in their persuasive tactics will tend to be the ones with less potential substance, my point was only that such a scenarios isn't necessarily the case. Even an "honest" person can find themselves coming to the correct conclusions for the wrong, faulty reasoning. In such cases They are only accidentally correct. In the hands of someone that understands that facts don't win arguments, but none the less believes their "side" is correct, it is all too easy to justify sensational, emotional arguments, rhetorical flourishes, etc in an "ends justify the means" sort of way.

I don't have an answer on the issue of news organizations being poorly suited here. On the one hand, there is an appeal to your the idea you convey that something is better than nothing. However, that status quo is also what has lead us to the current situation. There is a correlation with the rise of 24-hour news networks and the internet with the increased vitriolic, polarizing, and propagandist tone things. The need to fill air time was a big part of that. I don't wholly think that was the cause. There was some trend in that direction already:

Note to readers: This next part is not intended to cast blame only in one direction. It is simply one concrete example of the type of things that became commonplace.

Around 1990 Newt Gingrich penned a memo for titled "Language: A Key Mechanism for Control" It went on to explain how language could be used to manipulate people, complete with a guide for how to use demonizing dehumanizing language against political opponents. Over the years it was systematically disseminated through his party, and when Newt became house Speaker around 1995 he literally made it required reading. Shortly after is around the time that the term "liberal" went from being a fairly neutral description like "conservative" to being a hated moniker for a political opponent. (Though right-wing, alt-right, etc., fill that purpose. now for the other side)

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#184

Post by artificial » Thu, May 21, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

billme wrote: post #179

artificial wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are news entertainment not just to him, pretty much all the mainstream sources are news entertainment. They're not objective. This argument seems like calling breakfast cereal breakfast whereas it's marketed as part of a complete breakfast. The differences are subtle, like the WHO is a political organization that covers medical topics. A decent write up of the broadcast transition: https://www.medialit.org/readi…

I would argue mainstream media is literally propaganda, or at least the US government is legally allowed to broadcast propaganda [1] — either directly via direct government intervention— or like what is now known to be the case in Turkey, for example, where parties buy out the media to gain favor from a given political group. My point is that the majority of people actually watching these news outlets see it as news,…

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I see and completely agree with your points. Everybody believing something that's wrong doesn't make it right, critical thinking is down and I believe that there's far too many distractions for people to stay on top of things (it's a full time job following politics).

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#185

Post by justinmiller » Thu, May 21, 2020, 9:23 PM UTC

oceanbreeze83 wrote: post #5

For any news junkies heres, I've built https://maagnit.com which gathers both Left and Right leaning sources for any story and displays them altogether on one page. My approach has been, if we can't get neutral/objective coverage, getting comprehensive, 360 desgree coverage is a good alternative. These days, news bias is not only in the way a story is covered, but also which stories are covered. So, maagnit automatic…

Wow this is very similar to what I just started working on: https://bifocalnews.com

My strategy for picking headlines is to let it happen democratically on Reddit where the bias is explicit in the community rules of the subreddit. I have not yet found a great "center" news source or community.

I really like your news layout and the scrolling headlines at the bottom!

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#186

Post by rsynnott » Thu, May 21, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

SoylentOrange wrote: post #83

oceanbreeze83 wrote: post #5

For any news junkies heres, I've built https://maagnit.com which gathers both Left and Right leaning sources for any story and displays them altogether on one page. My approach has been, if we can't get neutral/objective coverage, getting comprehensive, 360 desgree coverage is a good alternative. These days, news bias is not only in the way a story is covered, but also which stories are covered. So, maagnit automatic…

When I was a kid CNN used to do this: they would invite a single climate scientist and a single climate change skeptic and have them make their points on equal time. CNN would then say “who’s right? You decide.” And the program would end. This was extremely harmful to the overall mission of informing people and created a false balance between sides which are not equally valid. Today, this is almost universally seen a…

A number of European public broadcasters have some sort of balance rule along these lines. It can get pretty weird.

A memorable example, in Ireland, during the campaign for the referendum to legalise same-sex marriage, was a radio news article where they were talking to someone in the hotel industry about the potential impact on the industry from wedding bookings. Because of the balance rule, they then had to have on one of the three available complete lunatics they had for all discussions of same-sex marriage to rant about how the gays were going to transgender all the unborn babies or something (due to all political parties supporting the amendment, and the Catholic Church staying out of it, there were a very small number of public figures available to go on the radio/tv for 'balance', and most of them were conspiracy theorists).

Some broadcasters have recently changed the rules around certain subjects; for instance the BBC no longer invites climate change denialists or creationists for 'balance' in most contexts.

I'm uncertain how I feel about it. It can produce truly bizarre results, like the marriage one I mentioned, but it does seem useful in some cases. A major concern I'd have about it is that it certainly _is_ used to spread misinformation and conspiracy theories, especially where one side of the argument is "basically everyone" and the other side is a weird fringe, or where the natural proponents of one side are sitting it out (common on social issues in Ireland, where the Catholic Church is skittish about opposing liberalisation too visibly).

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#187

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 21, 2020, 9:34 PM UTC

sabertoothed wrote: post #26

oceanbreeze83 wrote: post #5

For any news junkies heres, I've built https://maagnit.com which gathers both Left and Right leaning sources for any story and displays them altogether on one page. My approach has been, if we can't get neutral/objective coverage, getting comprehensive, 360 desgree coverage is a good alternative. These days, news bias is not only in the way a story is covered, but also which stories are covered. So, maagnit automatic…

The US really needs to change their political system so that it's no longer "the winner takes it all" politics where only two parties can effectively rival. This is so poisonous for everything. No nuances in the discussion. Truth comes under the wheels. Stupid slogans win. No chance for larger green/ecological movements besides the overwhelming topic of economics. Ridiculous gerrymandering. It's just very sad to see.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#188

Post by remram » Thu, May 21, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

artembugara wrote: post #88

0x006A wrote: post #75

Why did you choose to ship the list of RSS feeds as an SQL database? This makes it hard to keep it up to date and submit pull requests with additional sources. Would it not be better to keep that info in a json file or a dict / list in a python module?

Hey. Yes. You are right. We will change that!

Will you? https://github.com/kotartemiy/newscatcher/issues/3

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#189

Post by deadbunny » Thu, May 21, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

jhelphenstine wrote: post #182

kkotak wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Print media is akin to software released on DVDs - a lot more testing (fact checking), approvals (Editorial decisions) need to happen due to the perceived finality of the medium. TV on the other hand is like SaaS - continious integration and deployment. Release first and apologize later if needed.

I think you've got a witty metaphor here, but after mulling it over: Doesn't CI rely on robust testing to ensure buggy software doesn't make it into production? I'm not sure the fire-and-forget of the 24/7 news cycle lends itself to a comparison to continuous deployment, as there is a strong bias to 'deliver now' given competition to break the news first, and it's hard to build in 'automated testing' (vetting?) of co…

CI doesn't imply CI with testing.

Re: Show HN: Python package to collect normalized news from almost any website

#190

Post by cloudwizard » Thu, May 21, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

oceanbreeze83 wrote: post #5

For any news junkies heres, I've built https://maagnit.com which gathers both Left and Right leaning sources for any story and displays them altogether on one page. My approach has been, if we can't get neutral/objective coverage, getting comprehensive, 360 desgree coverage is a good alternative. These days, news bias is not only in the way a story is covered, but also which stories are covered. So, maagnit automatic…

I think the biggest problem in US Society is the idea that there is just Left and Right. Often they are both idiots.

The idea that our options for Covid are: 1) open up the economy and let people die until we get herd immunity 2) Keep every one home until we starve or get a vaccine.

The correct answer may be complex like Taiwan's 124 point plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Taiwan