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YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

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Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#311

Post by AbrahamParangi »

root_axis wrote: post #173
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll reiterate a point I’ve made before: the ultimate question is whether YouTube (and other social media platforms) should be permitted both the power to control on their platform as well as the freedom from liability of a common carrier. They exist in a limbo where they have their cake and eat it too- which I think is ultimately untenable.

> the ultimate question is whether YouTube (and other social media platforms) should be permitted both the power to control on their platform as well as the freedom from liability of a common carrier I disagree that this is the ultimate question or that this is in any way a problem that merits a changing of the laws (as current law explicitly permits this). Websites aren't common carriers, and I don't see a compellin…

To be clear, I think either position is fine. If you want control over what people say that's okay - but maybe then you should be accountable for what they say like a publisher.

If you don't want to be accountable for what people say, that's fine - but maybe then like a traditional common carrier you shouldn't get to control what people say.

The asymmetry of "I control everything you can say but am accountable for none of it" is wrong, in my eyes.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#312

Post by minhazm »

naasking wrote: post #306
_bxg1 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And on the other end of the spectrum we have people being indoctrinated into violent conspiracy groups like QAnon, or being prompted to set fire to cell towers, or bringing measles back from the dead, because of YouTube videos. There's a line to be drawn here - and it's a tricky line, to be sure - but "YouTube should be totally neutral and not pull anything" is not a viable answer.

> There's a line to be drawn here - and it's a tricky line, to be sure - but "YouTube should be totally neutral and not pull anything" is not a viable answer. It sure can be given other means of combatting misinformation. But sure, let's just go with the sledgehammer every time.

What are the other means?

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#313

Post by lopmotr »

bachmeier wrote: post #293
chrischen wrote: post #238

These types of censorship patterns are identical to that employed by China in intent . The practical consequences are the same as well. In China information censorship is due to the government trying to promote peace and harmony. Aka, the government thinks it knows what’s best for people and forces it on people. Facebook et al also encounter these same problems, where they see people spreading “misinformation.” It’s…

> These types of censorship patterns are identical to that employed by China in intent. The practical consequences are the same as well. True, if you ignore the fact that China is a government and YouTube is an internet video portal. And that there are sites like HN that can point it out. And that YouTube isn't taking steps to cover up what they've done. But yeah, let's compare the policing of bad information in a pa…

Stop this "bad information gets people killed" nonsense. You can justify any kind of censorship with that. That's what China does too. If they allow protests, they'll get violent and people will get killed. If the government is overthrown, millions of people will probably be killed or die from the ensuing chaos.

Youtube, Facebook, etc. in some ways have more power than the government because they can influence public opinion. They also set the standard for what's morally acceptable and people carry that standard with them elsewhere in their lives. Eventually, they'll probably vote for the government to enforce it because it's so popular.

I once met an American who believed hate speech was a crime. It turns out that a lot of young people believe that. No doubt because it is a "crime" on all their social media platforms. Some of them already want to make it a real crime when the discover it isn't yet.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#314

Post by [deleted] »

naasking wrote: post #305
bachmeier wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These types of censorship patterns are identical to that employed by China in intent. The practical consequences are the same as well. True, if you ignore the fact that China is a government and YouTube is an internet video portal. And that there are sites like HN that can point it out. And that YouTube isn't taking steps to cover up what they've done. But yeah, let's compare the policing of bad information in a pa…

> where YouTube doesn't benefit from the "censorship" Of course they do. You think they're spending all that money out of the kindness of their hearts? Way to dodge actually engaging with the principles at play here. You can certainly assert your consequentialist/utilitarian arguments, but not everyone agrees with that ethical framework.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#315

Post by majewsky »

gknoy wrote: post #273
unethical_ban wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube Vimeo Name the next five that are discoverable, host your videos for free, and can stream that to millions of people in a single day.

As a contrarian view, do our rights require it to be _cheap_? AWS + a domain name (`www.the-moon-really-is-made-of-cheese.com`) seems like something that is available to everyone. - It's not cheap - It's not easy However, it's a platform of speech that is available to everyone, and if you want to scale to millions, one can add the same caching layers etc that FAANG can. We've seen this kind of thing when people were…

> AWS + a domain name [for video hosting]

Have fun with that egress bill when your video goes viral.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#316

Post by root_axis »

hartator wrote: post #280
root_axis wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your video removed from someone's website isn't the same thing as having your internet cut off.

How so? Both are private properties.

Do you really not see the critical differences between having your internet cut off and having a website owner remove something you posted to their website? I am honestly having difficulty believing that.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#317

Post by xamuel »

zumu wrote: post #178
acituan wrote: post #51

I don’t agree with the interview contents, nor think professorship alone gives sufficient credibility in the face of a novel pandemic, data of which is in the process of emerging. That said, I don’t want youtube to be in charge of deciding what is credible or not. They don’t have in-house experts on these domains, they don’t have a magic epistemology machine that spits out the “facts”. They are good at writing web se…

The fact there is a global pandemic going on that requires the cooperation of virtually everyone is important context here. Meanwhile, YouTube does little moderation of zany philosophical, conspiratorial, or otherwise disruptive, unconventional content. The ideas of Galieo, Socrates, Jesus etc. fall into this category. That is to say those figures did not promote public health opinions that undermined a global cooper…

>The ideas of Galieo, Socrates, Jesus etc. fall into this category. That is to say those figures did not promote public health opinions that undermined a global cooperative effort in a time of crisis.

Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, "Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They do not wash their hands before they eat."

(...)

Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, "Listen and understand. A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it. (...) For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander. These are what defile a man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile him."

(Matthew 15:1-2, 10-11, 19-20)

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#318

Post by Closi »

bachmeier wrote: post #293
chrischen wrote: post #238

These types of censorship patterns are identical to that employed by China in intent . The practical consequences are the same as well. In China information censorship is due to the government trying to promote peace and harmony. Aka, the government thinks it knows what’s best for people and forces it on people. Facebook et al also encounter these same problems, where they see people spreading “misinformation.” It’s…

> These types of censorship patterns are identical to that employed by China in intent. The practical consequences are the same as well. True, if you ignore the fact that China is a government and YouTube is an internet video portal. And that there are sites like HN that can point it out. And that YouTube isn't taking steps to cover up what they've done. But yeah, let's compare the policing of bad information in a pa…

> True, if you ignore the fact that China is a government and YouTube is an internet video portal.

That's the way the west perceives the situation - although over there they might see this as 'powerful unelected corporation which is legally mandated to maximise profits arbitrarily censors with no oversight, in a country where these unelected corporations control parts of the government'.

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#319

Post by pluto9 »

dagnabbit wrote: post #286
logicslave wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to wonder if there are Chinese actors within Google influencing these censorships...

No, you really don' have to wonder that. That's a deeply stupid and racist conspiracy theory that you're promoting with no evidence or logical reasoning at all.

"Chinese" in this context pretty obviously means "acting on behalf of the Chinese government", not "having Chinese heritage".

Re: YouTube removes interview with professor of medicine on Covid stats and policy

#320

Post by chiefalchemist »

logicslave wrote: post #262
chrischen wrote: post #238

These types of censorship patterns are identical to that employed by China in intent . The practical consequences are the same as well. In China information censorship is due to the government trying to promote peace and harmony. Aka, the government thinks it knows what’s best for people and forces it on people. Facebook et al also encounter these same problems, where they see people spreading “misinformation.” It’s…

You have to wonder if there are Chinese actors within Google influencing these censorships...

Given Google's size and power it's only natural the Chinese and plenty of others would have insiders. How far up the influence ladder they've climbed is another matter.

Just the same, the US is doing it as well, abroad as well as at home.

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