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Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

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Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#251

Post by ip26 »

Mayzie wrote: post #159
cheeseomlit wrote: post #136

If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist while drastically raising taxes on my earnings from employment then I'll simply stop working. I would imagine most people would do the same.

The idea is that everyone receives a basic income, equivalent to a (hopefully) updated minimum wage. Then if people want extra money for luxuries, then you work a job which will pay you on top of your standard basic income. I imagine most people would continue working.

If the point is to ensure everyone has a basic income even between jobs, but that nearly everyone will continue to work, and the purpose is to provide a safety net for the unemployed- think a minute before you reply- is it really that different from unemployment insurance?

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#252

Post by eanzenberg »

jedberg wrote: post #209
eanzenberg wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Every experiment in UBI says otherwise. Direct cash grants usually lead people to do more work, because now they can do the work they enjoy. But probably less "meaningful" work, in however society defines meaningful. >>Also, look around groups of wealthy people. The ones who don't have to work anymore. Sure, some of them live a life of leisure, but many of them still work, because they get bored otherwise. This is…

> But probably less "meaningful" work, in however society defines meaningful. Typically in these experiments the people start small businesses. When the risk of failure has a floor it makes you more likely to take on the risk. > At some point, if enough income is withheld at that level, what's the point? Most UBI proposals are VAT taxes. The more you consume the more you pay. So if you're a wealthy person, you will s…

Why would the tax be regressive?

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#253

Post by robotresearcher »

Passthepeas wrote: post #227
Pfhreak wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a leftist person who isn't an opponent of ubi, but is an opponent of Yang's ubi. I have no problem with raising taxes, but I do have other concerns. Namely, if everyone got $x,xxx a month, how do we ensure that rents don't just go up by that amount or wages don't go down by that amount? I worry that without a well thought out plan, UBI just ends up funneling money directly back to the wealthy (eg, landlords and b…

so by that logic, if we took money away from people the rent would go down? The answer is yes, it probably would, but not enough to negate the effect of the wealth change. With a UBI of $1,000 I would expect rent might go up in some areas by maybe up to a few hundred but this idea that rent would somehow skyrocket to the point that it would nullify any benefit seems a ridiculous assertion to me.

What forces would stop landlords capturing a large part of this money?

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#254

Post by burrows »

matz1 wrote: post #240
WalterBright wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of work is to not have to anymore so you can follow your passions. So Bob needs to work so Fred can follow his passion for surfing and video games?

The point is Bob doesn't need to work.

If no one is working, then who is being taxed to pay for the UBI?

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#255

Post by jdmoreira »

I certainly don't want to be mean and I don't think that money should be how we measure people's value but I find it a bit odd that Andrew Yang claim to fame is being some kind of successful entrepreneur and yet his net worth is around 1 million USD. Much less than Obama for example.

I'm also talking as a non-us resident that doesn't know much about him except I've googled him a few times.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#256

Post by nogabebop23 »

>> Yang says Humanity Forward plans to immediately distribute Dorsey’s contribution in the form of small cash grants of $250 to nearly 20,000 people who’ve lost their jobs or taken an economic hit as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic

So money based on certain non-universal conditions?

Isn't this one of the root problems? People cannot accept a truly universal system - you've already got too much; that guy lives in the wrong part of the country; you have too much education; they're not citizens...

Bill Gates has stated he doesn't have enough money to tackle all major areas and make significant advances; then guys like Yang want to use far less money for even bigger mandates. This just looks like a way for rich guys to pick very specific winners.

UBI seems like it would be the most powerful vote-buying weapon ever created in the hands of any government given the opportunity to implement it.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#257

Post by kerkeslager »

While I think UBI is one of the better solutions to the poverty problem in the US, I think almost any solution to poverty will fall prey to inflation if we don't address income inequality.

One way to do this is pay ratio caps at companies. It's pretty hard to argue against this: if you really believe that wealth trickles down, then you should have no problem trusting but verifying that.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#258

Post by ativzzz »

jdmoreira wrote: post #255

I certainly don't want to be mean and I don't think that money should be how we measure people's value but I find it a bit odd that Andrew Yang claim to fame is being some kind of successful entrepreneur and yet his net worth is around 1 million USD. Much less than Obama for example. I'm also talking as a non-us resident that doesn't know much about him except I've googled him a few times.

Looks like he made his million on his successful startup (making him a successful entrepreneur) and then proceeded to start a non-profit, which by definition should not make him exponentially richer.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#259

Post by WalterBright »

uoaei wrote: post #216
Tiktaalik wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People studied the UBI idea and recognized the costs of giving money to everyone are so enormous that it's unworkable. That's there the means testing has come in to try to limit that. Something more like a "guaranteed minimum income" where you can't have less money than what is required to have a good standard of living is a cheaper and more effective idea that accomplishes the same goals of ending poverty.

If the rhetoric is solely around "government spending" then the perspective will always be that UBI is "too expensive". But the money doesn't just vanish when it enters people's bank accounts. All of a sudden, banks have a lot more collateral against which to borrow and invest, by virtue of the fact that the bank accounts which store the UBI have money in them. People spend that money and it enters and moves through…

A functioning economy is not built on pieces of paper. It's built on people working and producing value.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#260

Post by kaffeemitsahne »

jedberg wrote: post #182
cheeseomlit wrote: post #136

If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist while drastically raising taxes on my earnings from employment then I'll simply stop working. I would imagine most people would do the same.

Every experiment in UBI says otherwise. Direct cash grants usually lead people to do more work, because now they can do the work they enjoy. Also, look around groups of wealthy people. The ones who don't have to work anymore. Sure, some of them live a life of leisure, but many of them still work, because they get bored otherwise.

>Every experiment in UBI says otherwise.

Has even one of these been a permanent (for the recipients) experiment?

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