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California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

latimes.com

151–160 of 213 posts

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ooh, I'm gonna go with "a lot". Because motorcycles are a lot cheaper to buy, own, and maintain that cars. And a lot of them don't even require licenses in the US (49cc and smaller, if I'm not mistaken).

It’s the expensive Harley’s that are the most expensive AND loud, not the little scooters.

If you think scooters aren't loud then you've probably only heard the ones ridden by hipsters and software developers.

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#152
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the largest building in Croatia, housing around 5000 people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamutica It's a normal building with normal apartments, not a ghetto or a prison.

Actually it currently houses less than 3000 people, and is serviced by enormous green space. That's not remotely comparable to a 9000 seat cube in an urban setting. I can't speak to Croatia, but having travelled in the former Soviet Union often what makes such places livable are the enormous (by Western standards) amount of amenities which survive from Soviet times - skating rinks, public parks, ice skating rinks, bo…

> Actually it currently houses less than 3000 people, and is serviced by enormous green space

That's just normal green space, at least for that part of city :) I lived a few blocks away when I was at university.

> amount of amenities which survive from Soviet times - skating rinks, public parks, ice skating rinks, bowling alleys etc. Added to which is a grey economy of apartment run stores selling fresh and preserved produce.

I would not say that is true of Croatia. Stores are mostly large chains (and it's for the better, in my opinion). Parks are there, sure, but other amenities didn't seem any more prevalent than what I saw in Los Angeles.

Anyway, my general point is that large density housing can be pretty nice and does not need to be ghetto-like.

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#153
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks are businesses, why can't they charge what they want for services?

And the dark patterns of opening accounts without your permission, burying fee information in the fine print, etc etc...? It's not just business; it's predatory.

Now you're onto a different topic - we're talking about charging fees on accounts.

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so depressing to see. These are the symptoms of a system slowly grinding to a halt under its own weight. Compare the tax code in 1970 (or earlier) vs today (1). Regulations and laws keep getting more and more complex. It keeps getting slower and costlier to get anything done. Then throw in the aging infrastructure, the greater wealth inequality along with significantly decreased social mobility. Un-affordable…

I sold a piece of software to the state of California once. Among the 100+ page contract was a page where we had to agree that if, during the installation of this web app, a baby was to be abandoned, that we promise that we would abandon said baby at an approved fire station within 3 days of birth. That was probably 10+ years ago, but it was a real eye opening moment in seeing the mindless wheels of bureaucracy turn.…

Through my employer, I do work on an open source application. At one point a 3 letter agency contracted us to add some functionality that they needed. Of the developers at the company who work on said application, I happened to be the one picked to work on these features.

Eventually, someone actually read the contract and noticed that it required anyone working on it to have a security clearance. I ended up working on other parts of the same open source application that were being funded by a contract without such a clause, so we could have someone with a clearance charge the contract.

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#155
post #21

No new house around me was sub 1500 sq ft... guess bigger is better. But all the other houses in the area built between 1950-1990 were all under that.

The cost of land is too expensive in California. So if you buy a house that needs to be rebuilt, why tear down a 2-bedroom house and build another when you can build a 4-bedroom for 20% more? My house was built in 1951. It was 2-bedroom and around 1000 sq-ft. A bedroom was added around 2000. We moved in 2013 and added another bedroom in 2017. So we now have a house double the size it was 20 years ago. In the process, a starter home was taken out of the market. Why didn’t we just move to larger home? Unfortunately, buying a new home would cause property taxes to reset much higher. Buying something 25% more than my home is worth now would cause property taxes to double.

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#156
post #5

> Pearl was cut from 18 apartments to 10 and its approval required an underground garage with 53 parking spots. How did it ever get here? Requiring more than 2 parking spots per apartment is insane.... especially for "affordable housing".

Low-income families often pack many people into a small apartment, so it's not unrealistic for one apartment to need 3 parking spots for two working parents and a working child, just as an example. I lived in a household like that growing up

Not sure why this is getting downvoted. I did the census in 2010 and this was something I saw a lot in lower income neighborhoods -- easily 8+ people in 2-3 bedroom apartments.

They got to get to work, school, etc. And in the US you need a car, cuz public transit sucks, ergo, multiple parking spaces.

A dumb law, perhaps, but the parent comment isn't wrong.

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#157

The bullshit and nimbyism in California is truly breathtaking. That happened in the wealthy San Diego County enclave of Solana Beach, where the Pearl was cut from 18 apartments to 10 and its approval required an underground garage with 53 parking spots.

A friend of mine lived in the bay area for a bit and ended up leaving because he couldn't handle the virtue signaling. From his experience a significant amount of people would talk about helping low socioeconomic folk, oppression, or any other in vogue topic but never actually do anything. These would then be the loudest voices lobbying against having a methadone clinic in their neighborhood. He's living in Denver no…

Very true, just go on Nextdoor in the Bay area. The same person who "fights" for social justice for the oppressed is the person who posts "How do I get rid of the homeless tents in front of my house?".

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#158
post #114
post #78

After moving to America a while ago, one thing that struck me is how a lot of things are designed as effectively regressive taxes: the poor pay more than the rich. I opened a basic bank account with a giant American bank. The account has an exorbitant monthly fee, something like $15, but it’s waived if you keep a sufficient balance or have a steady salary. So the only people who pay the crazy fee are the broke people…

$15/mo is far too high at current interest rates so your point stands, but, rich people with steady balances are also paying the bank a fee in the form of an interest-free loan that the bank re-invests. $15/mo is equivalent to ~$14,400 balance at 1.25% APR [0] so anyone with a higher balance than that across their big bank low-interest/no-interest accounts is paying more than $15/mo. [0] I chose this number as someth…

From a business perspective, the $15 a month makes sense.

However, I'd consider banking an essential need to modern day life. Thus I think it is worth looking at through a humanities perspective. Unfortunately in our current situation, it's very expensive to be poor.

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#159
post #139

Man this hits deep. I moved out to Southern California a few years ago from the south east. It’s crazy, I can barely afford to buy a house here with a 300k/yr income. Even then it’s gonna be some non remodeled, in need of upgrades 700k home. To get anything decent (new kitchen, windows, working hvac) it’s at-least 900k+. I don’t get how people are buying these homes.

Help me understand. An average mortgage is 200k, at the average household income of 63k and a 30 year at 4.1%, thats 18.5% of your pretax income going into a mortgage. The same numbers for a 300k income and a 700k house works out to 13.5%. Seems like you are doing significant better than most? Happy to be corrected.

Yeah I'm not sure what he's talking about either. $900k home on $300k income is entirely reasonable and a better ratio than what the average person does

Re: California affordable housing is more expensive than luxury housing

#160
post #139

Man this hits deep. I moved out to Southern California a few years ago from the south east. It’s crazy, I can barely afford to buy a house here with a 300k/yr income. Even then it’s gonna be some non remodeled, in need of upgrades 700k home. To get anything decent (new kitchen, windows, working hvac) it’s at-least 900k+. I don’t get how people are buying these homes.

Help me understand. An average mortgage is 200k, at the average household income of 63k and a 30 year at 4.1%, thats 18.5% of your pretax income going into a mortgage. The same numbers for a 300k income and a 700k house works out to 13.5%. Seems like you are doing significant better than most? Happy to be corrected.

They might be able to afford a house, but the community around them will not (the average household income in San Diego is around 100K, not 300K). By pricing out young people and stunting their communities, California NIMBYs reduce opportunity and social mobility.

The ultimate result of the totality of California housing policies is that California senior homeowners transfer resources from the rest of society to themselves while reducing quality of life for everyone else.

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