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Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

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Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#151

Post by thoughtstheseus »

LAMike wrote: post #85
ravenstine wrote: post #44

I don't understand the optimism around UBI. UBI is a band-aid and a sign that a system is actually failing. I get why some people, especially intellectuals, want UBI, but they seem to believe that UBI is free of consequence. If society "needs" UBI, that means that not enough people can build wealth or that the welfare system isn't effective. Handing people money isn't going to change the fact that too much of the eco…

> because they effectively own their oil industry Why can't we, as a society, come together and take ownership of our data, and sell it back to the companies using our data for profit?

Or at the very least consider taxing those collecting it. Data for services is bartering.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#152

Post by oldsklgdfth »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #136

If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist while drastically raising taxes on my earnings from employment then I'll simply stop working. I would imagine most people would do the same.

The cynic in me is thinking that everyone has an extra $xxxx/month laying around.

How do I get people to give me their money? Maybe now that free app idea, can sell for $1 or $2. Maybe know I can charge $3/hour tutoring.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#153

Post by slg »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #136

If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist while drastically raising taxes on my earnings from employment then I'll simply stop working. I would imagine most people would do the same.

Are you currently only working just to subsist? Because most people on HN work much harder than they need to and make much more than they need to just to subsist.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#154

Post by arcatech »

ravenstine wrote: post #44

I don't understand the optimism around UBI. UBI is a band-aid and a sign that a system is actually failing. I get why some people, especially intellectuals, want UBI, but they seem to believe that UBI is free of consequence. If society "needs" UBI, that means that not enough people can build wealth or that the welfare system isn't effective. Handing people money isn't going to change the fact that too much of the eco…

I don't think the argument is that society "needs" it, it's that it's a better system than the one we have now.

I don't know much about the current proposals. In my head, it's an adjustment of the current economic system. Pay everyone money, provide jobs for anyone who wants more money, collect more taxes, remove redundant social services, etc. It seems like it could work better than what we have now so it sounds worthy of serious consideration.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#155

Post by hhs »

actualanswer wrote: post #138
hhs wrote: post #117

If interested, this provides a brief historical perspective, with the pros and cons of UBI: https://news.stanford.edu/2020/03/24/moment-universal-basic-...

This doesn't provide any view into pros/cons tho. Mostly statements about what happened and is happening. Not very useful from that perspective.

Please note that there’s a box down on the left of that page, which is called “Stanford scholar explores pros, cons of ‘basic income’”, with the info and may be useful. This is the box link: https://news.stanford.edu/2018/08/08/stanford-scholar-explor...

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#156

Post by HideousKojima »

hadtodoit wrote: post #132
Ididntdothis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The annual dividend is around $1000. I wouldn’t call this UBI exactly.

Many people actually survive on that one check. Alaskans are fiercely independent for the most part, and those living outside the main cities are typically self-sustainable. They own their land, hunt for their meat, grow their veggies, trade for what they don't have, and spend whatever money they do have on the essential tools to sustain that.

How would that work in a city where an acre costs millions?

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#157

Post by zelly »

UBI only makes sense in the science fiction world that Andrew Yang and other non-technical journalists think is somehow imminent. We still need people to make things. There are still guys hanging off the side of garbage trucks every day and people still pick fruits by hand. If no one does these things, you will starve and die. We cannot survive forever on financial engineering by bureaucrats and importing all our necessities from other countries that actually make things.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#159

Post by Mayzie »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #136

If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist while drastically raising taxes on my earnings from employment then I'll simply stop working. I would imagine most people would do the same.

The idea is that everyone receives a basic income, equivalent to a (hopefully) updated minimum wage. Then if people want extra money for luxuries, then you work a job which will pay you on top of your standard basic income.

I imagine most people would continue working.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#160

Post by uses »

Press2forEN wrote: post #110

Years ago, proponents of UBI claimed that it was a replacement for all other forms of social welfare. Now it appears by most proposals to be yet another means-tested add-on. What happened?

I think there has been growing momentum behind the idea that some needs aren't met best by a market approach. One of the ideas behind UBI is that people can figure out what they need, and just spend the money.

But that doesn't really solve the needs that may not be optimal for a 100% market approach - probably the big two being health and education.

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