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Automattic invests in Matrix

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Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#71

Post by Boulth »

Arathorn wrote: post #68
mawalu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But keybase still has their server software that people depend on and that isn't open source. Worst that could happen with New Vector is that they stop paying developers to work for the Matrix.org foundation but that would not prevent anyone from continuing to use the existing software

Yeah, we (Matrix) have a fundamentally different model to Keybase. The Matrix.org Foundation ( https://matrix.org/foundation ) is an independent neutral entity that safeguards the protocol and ecosystem, with the mission to protect it from being sabotaged by any actors in the ecosystem ( including New Vector - https://vector.im , the startup founded by the team who created Matrix). Even if New Vector did go evil (e.g…

> the monetisation strategy for New Vector is selling Matrix hosting (https://modular.im) and helping out big folks like Governments who want to jump on board Matrix. While the company is certainly not profitable yet, it certainly has a path to being sustainable (otherwise folks like Automattic wouldn't invest!)

Thanks for this info! Exactly what I was looking for.

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#72

Post by [deleted] »

Boulth wrote: post #47

VC money mixed with open source software again. It didn't end well for Keybase. I hope Matrix has a monetization strategy. Edit: for people interested there are company docs at https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10873661/filing-h... eg. "25 Mar 2020 Total exemption full accounts" document (2.2) shows a yearly loss of almost 2M pounds. Edit 2: it seems Matrix people no longer control 50% of their company share…

[deleted]

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#73

Post by Arathorn »

vertex-four wrote: post #67
Arathorn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a massive academic paper dedicated to Matrix's theoretical correctness (and the correctness of the Synapse implementation) going to be published in a few weeks. Wish it was already out, because it's spectacular :) That said, nobody's done any Jepsen tests yet as far as we know, but we'd really welcome them!

Getting a Jepsen test done involves paying Aphyr for it, which I imagine you could do with this lovely new investment. Information here: https://jepsen.io/analyses

The first thing we earmarked the new investment for is doing a proper audit on the full stack - not just libolm (the e2ee ratchet implementation), but ideally an end-to-end audit of a typical best practice setup (e.g. E2EE-enabled registration/login/msg flows for Riot Web Synapse Riot Web), so we can then stamp a LTS label on it. We'll want to finish sorting teething problems on the new E2EE stuff though, as well as the scaling mess on Synapse first.

Sounds like Jepsen could certainly be part of that; we'll ping Aphyr when the time is right.

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#74

Post by fluffything »

Arathorn wrote: post #59
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent update is a huge leap forward, but still, no one understands, why they have to save/remember 3 passwords. Only my closest family would listen me explaining that there's encryption but there's also authentication , yet only because I force that info upon them while standing over their shoulder, making sure they write down all the recovery keys. Select few graduated to password managers and know to back the base…

There aren't three passwords; there are two: an account password and a recovery passphrase/key. It's the same as (say) macOS - where you have a login password to get into your computer, and a recovery key for FileVault in case of disasters. However, the feedback is overwhelmingly that we need to iterate on the recovery passphrase - either making it a generated key (like macOS does), or going the whole hog and replaci…

I'm used to a single pw system, where on account creation the system generates a recovery key, that I can save or not.

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#75

Post by gravitas »

dang wrote: post #16

We changed the URL from https://matrix.org/blog/2020/05/21/welcoming-automattic-to-m... to an article that gives more background. (via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23256180 )

I disagree with this editorialization. You have driven clicks away from the source website (content origin) over to a 3rd party entity running ads and writing their own narrative "Automattic pumps...").

uBlock has blocked 31 (actually, 38 and counting - dynamic while open - oops, up to 41 now) intrusive ads/trackers on your new link to a commercial website, and zero on the original link to the source of information. I do not want this as a reader and feel given the subject matter (privacy, e2e chats, etc.) that this move is not in the best interests of the people reading this link or article.

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#76

Post by justaj »

Arathorn wrote: post #65
justaj wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main Matrix.org homeserver is pretty slow because it's usually overloaded: https://matrixservers.anchel.nl/783115140 This is IMO mainly because they've stuck with the main implementation of the homeserver (Synapse) being written in Python. Had they've gone through with developing Dendrite as the main implementation, or perhaps even gone with one written in Rust, all of this would feel much snappier. In a way, Den…

There are a bunch of Dendrites already running serverside on the public network there - it's almost out of alpha. Meanwhile Conduit ( http://conduit.rs/ ) is a new implementation in Rust which is making spectacular progress (it's overtaken Dendrite in some places already). Both of them are unrecognisably snappy, relative to Synapse - even when Synapse isn't completely overloaded.

Very interesting! I hadn't heard of Conduit before.

So, if that's available, why not use Conduit as a candidate for the p2p-matrix? Wouldn't it be a better choice than Dendrite? AFAIK Mozilla is already heavily pushing Rust into the WASM territory so perhaps that would make a lot of sense.

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#77

Post by buboard »

Arathorn wrote: post #63
ValentineC wrote: post #55

> Talking of moving, Hodgson says he expects Automattic to move over from Slack to Riot following this investment. Here's hoping Automattic has enough influence to move the WordPress.org open source and community discussions (which are currently hosted on Slack, but used to take place on IRC) to Matrix too.

That's the hope - the pressure is on the Riot/Matrix side to ensure that the transition is a no-brainer in terms of UX :)

Are we currently able to easily integrate an existing community (usernames) to a matrix server?

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#78

Post by acd »

Glad to see this, I hope open source communication will be the preferred first choice.

Why? openness Archiving Enabling access to all

IRC used to be used open I hope Matrix and IRCv3 takes over.

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#79

Post by cyphar »

fluffything wrote: post #74
Arathorn wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't three passwords; there are two: an account password and a recovery passphrase/key. It's the same as (say) macOS - where you have a login password to get into your computer, and a recovery key for FileVault in case of disasters. However, the feedback is overwhelmingly that we need to iterate on the recovery passphrase - either making it a generated key (like macOS does), or going the whole hog and replaci…

I'm used to a single pw system, where on account creation the system generates a recovery key, that I can save or not.

That is what's actually happening behind the scenes (though note that the "recovery key" is actually incredibly important since it gives you access to your key backups -- which is something you absolutely want to enable if you're an ordinary user). The problem is that by default Matrix tries to back the "recovery key" up to the homeserver you're using, encrypted with a second passphrase -- hence why you get two passphrases. You can opt-out of it, but I think the UX is the wrong way around -- it should be an opt-in thing and that would make it clearer that the recovery key is what's important and that the passphrase is only needed if you want to upload it to your homeserver.

There is an open issue on this topic[1].

[1]: https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/8751

Re: Automattic invests in Matrix

#80

Post by boardwaalk »

olah_1 wrote: post #48

> Imagine if every WP site automatically came with its own Matrix room or community? Imagine if all content in WP automatically was published into Matrix as well as the Web?… Imagine there was an excellent Matrix client available as a WordPress plugin for embedding realtime chat into your site?” I want to imagine it, but I really struggle to. Matrix is just too slow, bloated, and heavy. I cannot even fathom what a sn…

Just want to say this is my experience. I’ve tried a few times to set up a Matrix server and federating with and joining any room that’s larger/has more history is an exercise in frustration. High CPU usage, frequent timeouts. And this is with years between attempts; nothing really seems to have improved. And I’m still getting Matrix-related HTTP requests a month after taking the server down, which is a little annoying.

Obviously distributed and encrypted not an easy problem, but if this is what it is, it’s just not fit for purpose for me.

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