This is a periodic reminder that Signal's non-optional contact discovery feature stands directly against their central value proposition and should cause everyone to doubt their alignment.
Signal PINs
181–190 of 199 posts
Re: Signal PINs
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've found that tapping next to the registration lock PIN prompt will dismiss it on Android. A "dismiss" button and a "don't ask me again, I won't lose this" checkmark would make much more sense to me.
how hard is it to enter 4 digits right
I would recommend something much longer than 4 digits.
Re: Signal PINs
#183Sigh. What about fixing backups so that I don't need this? There is always something absolutely odd with Signal. The obtuse insistence in creating it's own vault makes it annoying to use to share media and to make backups. Down to the built-in unusable camera app. I have almost everything duplicated in/out of signal because of this. Huge space waste. What's the threat model? Under the assumption that I can root the p…
I just had to restore backups on my phone (previous got broken) and it's such a disaster of usability that it makes use of GPG easy. 1.) You only get to see the backup password ONCE. They create it for you, it's a giant bunch of numbers written in columns. They show you that the FIRST time you enable backups, which might be years away from the time you need them. 2.) After they dump the backup, they just throw it in…
> You only get to see the backup password ONCE. They create it for you, it's a giant bunch of numbers written in columns. They show you that the FIRST time you enable backups, which might be years away from the time you need them.
You can create a new backup if you forget or lose the encryption key, and considering it creates them periodically this doesn't even serve as an extra inconvenience for me. I don't see an obviously better alternative for creating an encrypted backup. Why would a password repeatedly be shown to a user?
Re: Signal PINs
#184This really worries me: now the safety of my data hinges on Intel's remote attestation and a password I can remember.
> and a password I can remember. This is going to be the reality of any data system which you want to have complete control over. I suppose it could also be a complex key you instead keep on your drive, but that has risks as well.
Maybe I should have been more explicit: the safety of my data at rest on a remote system hinges on Intel's oft-broken security code and a memorable password.
Normally I use 128-bit passwords (i.e., 22 mixed-case letters and digits) for any remote system. That's not really practical for something which prompts me to enter the PIN periodically (and I think Signal limits the PIN to 20 characters anyway).
I do not see any net benefit to storing my contact information on Signal's servers. If I want to rebuild my contact list, I can … ask my contacts for their Signal accounts.
Re: Signal PINs
#185I've already got a passphrase on my Signal app. Why do I also need a PIN on top of that? If it's supposed to be an easier alternative to a passphrase, then okay, but stop showing me the freaking notification to setup a PIN...
You mean the pre-existing “Registration lock” feature? I think they are using the same pin. I’ve had that set for years and I’ve been getting pin reminders for the last several months and I now see “Change your PIN” in my settings.
I have only set a reg lock pin. I never set any other pin. Then I uninstalled the app. Now when I installed it again today it is asking me for a PIN and the only PIN on Signal I have set was a reg lock pin which is not being accepted.
I remember the PIN and it's also stored in BitWarden and KeePass. Now I am locked out.
Re: Signal PINs
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d really like to have a more sane version of Signal as a fork, which allows the maintaining of compatibility, but given how hostile they’ve been towards this sort of thing I suspect it would be unmaintainable.
I think I liked Signal better when it was just encrypting text and sending it over SMS. I noticed recently that someone has been maintaining such a fork, under the name "Silence", but haven't had a chance to try it yet.
I used Silence as my primary SMS app for several years while I was on Android. Overall I had no complaints. Beware though, they seem to have been booted out of the Play Store at some point, so you might need to install through F-Droid.
Re: Signal PINs
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Read the article before commenting.
I did. I assume you are referring to " your PIN isn’t recoverable if you forget it ". There's a difference between "not recoverable to a Signal user" and "nobody is able to brute force it if they get access to the cloud data". So what i'm curious about is, how can this be? If you have lost your device (and thus all the keys stored in the signal app/phone), how can they store just a single pin while at the same time b…
> Signal PINs are based on [Secure Value Recovery], which we previewed in December, to allow supporting data like your profile, settings, and who you’ve blocked to be securely recovered should you lose or switch devices.
[Secure Value Recovery] https://signal.org/blog/secure-value-recovery/
> All of this adds up to a secure enclave that limits the number of recovery attempts that are possible against a value synchronized across nodes in hardware-encrypted RAM.
Re: Signal PINs
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just had to restore backups on my phone (previous got broken) and it's such a disaster of usability that it makes use of GPG easy. 1.) You only get to see the backup password ONCE. They create it for you, it's a giant bunch of numbers written in columns. They show you that the FIRST time you enable backups, which might be years away from the time you need them. 2.) After they dump the backup, they just throw it in…
> You only get to see the backup password ONCE. They create it for you, it's a giant bunch of numbers written in columns. They show you that the FIRST time you enable backups, which might be years away from the time you need them. You can create a new backup if you forget or lose the encryption key, and considering it creates them periodically this doesn't even serve as an extra inconvenience for me. I don't see an o…
How do you recreate the key on a broken phone?
Also, the dialog showing the code doesn't allow copying or provide any easy way of saving it somewhere. Which makes is very unlikely that many users will successfuly store it.
Also the backup itself has no support of syncing anywhere. Your phone fell out of your pocket? Well, say goodbye of all the pictures of your nephew.
Pretty much every layer of this process is very user-hostile and provides practically no help for the user to have effective and secure backups.
Re: Signal PINs
#189This is all well and good. But the forced/unsilenceable pin reminders seems a bit obtuse to me. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Si... "Can I turn off these reminders? It is important to memorize your PIN, and the reminders cannot be disabled. We cannot recover your PIN if you forget it. You will see the reminders less frequently if you consistently enter your PIN correctly. The reminders wil…
It is beyond comprehension that they think pin reminders being mandatory is ok. I have been a huge fan of signal from the beginning and this is single handily a deal breaker and has me looking for alternatives. How did they not learn from this when they tried it with the activation lock.
Is there a reason more people don't use Wire? Its interface annoys me but I was under the impression it's E2E is pretty good and the source code is publicly available?
Re: Signal PINs
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You only get to see the backup password ONCE. They create it for you, it's a giant bunch of numbers written in columns. They show you that the FIRST time you enable backups, which might be years away from the time you need them. You can create a new backup if you forget or lose the encryption key, and considering it creates them periodically this doesn't even serve as an extra inconvenience for me. I don't see an o…
How do you recreate the key on a broken phone? Also, the dialog showing the code doesn't allow copying or provide any easy way of saving it somewhere. Which makes is very unlikely that many users will successfuly store it. Also the backup itself has no support of syncing anywhere. Your phone fell out of your pocket? Well, say goodbye of all the pictures of your nephew. Pretty much every layer of this process is very…
> How do you recreate the key on a broken phone?
What you're looking for appears to be an unencrypted backup, which has clear security implications that Signal (quite reasonably, in my opinion) chose to avoid given that it is storing a file on your local device memory. Honestly, if you don't want to keep track of an encryption key and still want to retain your message history, maybe you don't care that much about your messaging privacy (which is fine). There are plenty of apps that serve this use case.
> Also, the dialog showing the code doesn't allow copying or provide any easy way of saving it somewhere. Which makes is very unlikely that many users will successfuly store it.
Again, I think this is a conscious choice. Their design decisions appear to work well for those who don't know much about technology but still want a private messaging platform. Allowing unsafe key storage methods instead of (for example) writing it down on a piece of paper might encourage users to take that easier route and Signal wants to lean towards privacy even if that means losing message history.
> Also the backup itself has no support of syncing anywhere. Your phone fell out of your pocket? Well, say goodbye of all the pictures of your nephew.
I agree that this can make things complicated, but based on the comments here a good number of users don't want a cloud storage solution and would prefer to lose their messages. In any case, this is easy to work around because a Android allows for decent file management, so any one of the hundreds of file sync apps can work for you here.