GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software) • Hacker News Board

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#21

Post by mdaniel » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 6:13 PM UTC

slug wrote: post #5

w1ntermute wrote: post #2

What's the reason for starting a new project when you could build on existing ones like Ekiga instead?

Ekiga is great, I actually prefer it to skype, as I can more easily set video/audio quality and it uses an open and standard protocol. They have binaries for any major linux distro , mac and windows, and it's fairly easy to compile from source if needed. The NAT traversal improved tremendously by the transparently use of stun, no configuration necessary. Give me my SIP IPv6 address and ekiga would work just fine for…

As an aside, I haven't had a similar experience as you have with Ekiga. I would not recommend it for my family members, for example.

Don't forget that Skype's UX is only one fraction of why people like or don't like Skype. The codec they use is often vastly superior for "normal people" situations than even commercial SIP clients, or the WebEx-es of the world.

I don't doubt that the Skype network topology has something to do with it, but I am (perhaps erroneously) lumping those features together for the purposes of this discussion.

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#22

Post by pmjordan » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 6:13 PM UTC

thisisfmu wrote: post #18

pclark wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

neither of those have network effects, they can thrive in oligopoly markets, I think that communication is a winner takes all (ironically why you want it to be an open standard, but such is innovation from startups)

skype alternatives do have a (small) chance despite strong network effects. 1/ policy makers do not like running a third-party closed-source obfuscated binary with undefined behavior aggressively evading firewalls inside their business or country (in the case of China). 2/ the network effects are not nearly as strong as, for instance, ebay's. i do not care about being able to call random strangers on skype, only abou…

The network effects are (luckily) also not exclusive. There's no reason why you can't use Skype AND a SIP phone AND GNU phone software - the only time it's an issue is when you want to do a conference call. That said, if GNU want to win this one, they'd better not make freedom their main "selling" point. Skype's usability and reliability leave some room for improvement, and users might care about those points enough to switch.

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#23

Post by Semiapies » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 6:21 PM UTC

pclark wrote: post #7

The sad fact of the matter is most people do not give a hoot about software being open. I honestly do not think you stand a chance competing against Skype, it is so insanely great and wide spread. I'd be impressed if they can actually make the UI/UX better than the latest (horrendous) Skype client. It's like the Diaspora of VoIP.

In the end, I think it's more important that the means of software production are open and freely available. This allows people alternatives to proprietary software that isn't insanely great - like Firefox helped a lot of people escape IE.

If they've done nothing else, the FSF has accomplished that.

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#24

Post by shareme » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 6:37 PM UTC

My bias: I was being recruited by the firm Phil Zimmerman owns to develop mobile clients for competitor secure SIP/P2P platform 8 months ago.

I think it has a better chance than zfone did or does:

1. Built in desktop 'platform', ie market, the Linux distros.

2. Skype and Mobile Operators will make enough potential customers enemies on mobile that any competitor who gets a mobile product out the door will do well..

I like their desktop approach better than zfone..as zfone wanted to piggyback on desktop clients rather than come up with their own P2p platform.

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#25

Post by tzury » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

You guys at gnu.org shall consider taking freeSwitch and rewrite the parts which are licensed under non GPL compliant license, especially some of the voice codecs. FreeSwitch is so well debugged and tested, and been around for long, starting something new reminds me that attempt published here two days ago about some hackers which were claiming of authoring a better nmap replacement in few weeks or so.

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#26

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 7:45 PM UTC

pmjordan wrote: post #22

thisisfmu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

skype alternatives do have a (small) chance despite strong network effects. 1/ policy makers do not like running a third-party closed-source obfuscated binary with undefined behavior aggressively evading firewalls inside their business or country (in the case of China). 2/ the network effects are not nearly as strong as, for instance, ebay's. i do not care about being able to call random strangers on skype, only abou…

The network effects are (luckily) also not exclusive. There's no reason why you can't use Skype AND a SIP phone AND GNU phone software - the only time it's an issue is when you want to do a conference call. That said, if GNU want to win this one, they'd better not make freedom their main "selling" point. Skype's usability and reliability leave some room for improvement, and users might care about those points enough…

Actually in this case they can win on freedom and they can do so by telling people that anybody can listen to their phonecalls (which is very likely true, almost certainly with a warrant) -- people care about their privacy (even though most likely nobody cares what they are saying).

But more importantly Skype can fix the ux. They cannot fix the freedom issue (and if they somehow manage to do so anyway, great).

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#27

Post by jerf » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 7:58 PM UTC

pclark wrote: post #13

chadaustin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe true, but give them a chance at least... See firefox, inkscape as successful examples.

neither of those have network effects, they can thrive in oligopoly markets, I think that communication is a winner takes all (ironically why you want it to be an open standard, but such is innovation from startups)

"I think that communication is a winner takes all"

Which cell phone manufacturer has "taken all"?

You seem to be basing your statement on the impossibility of interoperability, which is an odd position to take, at least if you actually think about it.

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#28

Post by patrickaljord » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 8:05 PM UTC

pclark wrote: post #7

The sad fact of the matter is most people do not give a hoot about software being open. I honestly do not think you stand a chance competing against Skype, it is so insanely great and wide spread. I'd be impressed if they can actually make the UI/UX better than the latest (horrendous) Skype client. It's like the Diaspora of VoIP.

Actually Skype is pretty horrible on linux, it uses tons of CPU, crashes a lot and lacks tons of features compared to windows. Also I've heard bad things about the OSX version.

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#29

Post by phillco » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 8:26 PM UTC

pclark wrote: post #13

chadaustin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe true, but give them a chance at least... See firefox, inkscape as successful examples.

neither of those have network effects, they can thrive in oligopoly markets, I think that communication is a winner takes all (ironically why you want it to be an open standard, but such is innovation from startups)

Actually, browsers do have network effects. If you're not important enough that web developers test their sites against you, you are going to suffer. See Opera.

Re: GNU Free Call has been announced (Skype-like software)

#30

Post by StavrosK » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 8:36 PM UTC

patrickaljord wrote: post #28

pclark wrote: post #7

The sad fact of the matter is most people do not give a hoot about software being open. I honestly do not think you stand a chance competing against Skype, it is so insanely great and wide spread. I'd be impressed if they can actually make the UI/UX better than the latest (horrendous) Skype client. It's like the Diaspora of VoIP.

Actually Skype is pretty horrible on linux, it uses tons of CPU, crashes a lot and lacks tons of features compared to windows. Also I've heard bad things about the OSX version.

Not to mention the iPhone/Android clients. It's horrible on Linux, sending a few messages will cause it to hang and consume 100% CPU until you shut it down, with the only indication that it hung being the CPU usage.