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The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

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Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#321

Post by mcculley »

toxik wrote: post #292
wayoutthere wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the other part to remember is that the author of the article is 22. I didn't need sleep either when I was his age. I don't mean he's naive, just that a 22-year-old can abuse their body without too many negative consequences. As someone in my late 30s, I definitely feel it when I only get 4 hours of sleep.

I don't know what type of drugs you guys were eating in your 20's but if I pulled an all-nighter, I was absolutely ruined the next day and a bit the day after that. Even in my teens.

While consuming no drugs other than caffeine, I was regularly able to work for up to three days without sleep in my early twenties. At 48, I’m much more affected by my sleep schedule. Young people are simply more resilient, some more than others.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#322

Post by bronco21016 »

hashmal wrote: post #66
snowwrestler wrote: post #31

When I go many days in a row without enough sleep, I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline--as judged by things I build and people I interact with. But, my endurance of focus (the amount of time for which I can perform at a high level) does suffer. The weird thing is that it doesn't feel like I can't keep going... it's just that I sort of somehow don…

> I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline It's very common. Studies on sleep deprivation report that subjects do not feel their cognitive abilities decline. However, measuring cognition using objective tests does show a significant decrease in these abilities.

Sleep deprivation and cognitive ability is studied pretty heavily in aviation. Most airlines have mechanisms for pilots to self report fatigue events, events where because of operational needs the crew ends up working extended hours. There comes a point in the day where the pilots are asked if they’re ok to continue.

It’s amazing that often times in the reports, which are generally done a day later, the pilots will state that they probably shouldn’t have continued. However, in the moment where they made that decision, they didn’t feel all that tired. We ask the pilots to make a critical decision about themselves at precisely the time where they may not have the best judgment.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#323

Post by shoulderfake »

This completely contradicts my experience with reduced sleep. If I sleep 6 hrs instead of my usual 8.5 I'm good for nothing that day. I can code for half a day maybe but thats it. My workouts are also severely affected in terms of max intensity.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#324

Post by TinkersW »

I'm totally baffled by people claiming to be able to function with less than 8 hours of sleep.

Even 1 night of 6 hours is enough to reduce my mental capabilities immensely. It is like a fog closes on my mind. Memory suffers particularly, have much greater difficulty recalling words for things/people(and if the sleep loss is severe it can become impossible), and any code I write in this state is subpar when I look at it later. Additionally it often takes me exponentially longer to write the code when tired..

Also recovery from sleep deprivation requires extra sleep for me. If I follow up a night of 6 hours with a night of 8 hours, I still feel like I only had 6 hours, requiring me to sleep extra until the 'fog' goes away.

And age has nothing to do with it, had the same problem as teen.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#325

Post by TinkersW »

meddlepal wrote: post #257
burlesona wrote: post #254

I have come to the (non-scientific) conclusion that this is probably genetic. I know some people who sleep a lot less than me and seem to be fine with that. I am not fine with less sleep, but I wish I was because I would love to have the extra hours each day. I thought of this for the first time when listening to a Freakonomics podcast series interviewing major company CEOs. Several of them mentioned schedules where…

I think it's more likely some people can just power through lack of sleep. I've recently started trying to sleep more 6-7+ hours after a decade of doing the 3-5 hours thing. I just feel better now with more sleep and while I certainly could perform at a high level with less sleep I had to exert more energy the longer the day went on to stay focused. Genetic? Maybe, or just really good discipline and work ethic?

It isn't work ethic, the difference for me between full night sleep and 6 hours is night and day-- my memory barely works if I have 6 hours, doesn't matter how hard I want it to work, I simply cannot recall words for things that are trivial to bring forth when I'm operating on 8 hours.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#326

Post by sebow »

This is highly subjective and depends from person to person.Da vinci for example had an absolutely insane schedule(something like working 4 hours, sleeping for half an hour and repeat).

For stronger, more "effective" sleep hours, exercise is needed ,alongside good oxygen and adequate temperature.This is almost a fact and other factors like caffeine(which slow your brain when you're not consuming it) must be considered.

All in all, i think most people forget to "debug" themselves and the needs of their bodies by being pressured by time & career. On the long term, taking care of your body is probably more beneficiary than having a project delivered on time.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#327

Post by take_a_breath »

rxhernandez wrote: post #102
hashmal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find that my cognitive abilities (i.e. what I am capable of doing) does not seem to significantly decline It's very common. Studies on sleep deprivation report that subjects do not feel their cognitive abilities decline. However, measuring cognition using objective tests does show a significant decrease in these abilities.

I wonder if recognizing your cognitive decline is a cultural issue or something else; it couldn't be more clear that I am unable traverse many layers of abstraction when I havent slept enough; it was also apparent to everyone in my physics undergrad that they couldn't handle statistical mechanics with sleep deprivation.

Wearing sleep-depravation as a badge-of-honor seems like an American quirk.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#328

Post by toyg »

guzey wrote: post #311
toyg wrote: post #304

This is one of those posts I wish I could downvote 1000 times. It's the brogrammer equivalent of fake news: 22-yo kid "makes science" with a sample of 1, some videogames, and a few charts. You are 22 year old. Your body is at peak condition, built to go out and hunt for days on little food and little sleep. Of course it will work more or less fine for a few weeks.

I'm the author of this study. >It's the brogrammer equivalent of fake news: 22-yo kid "makes science" with a sample of 1, some videogames, and a few charts. >You are 22 year old. Your body is at peak condition, built to go out and hunt for days on little food and little sleep. Of course it will work more or less fine for a few weeks. I like this comment because its author can't decide whether my study is the "equival…

You are clearly unfamiliar with the process of mass-producing fake news. It typically takes “common sense” and proceeds to mislead it through bad paths. Which is exactly what you do with this “study”: you over-analyze a situation that is relatively obvious, with a sample of 1, and simply by doing so you effectively suggest to generalize its results - which is wrong.

You dropping a caveat mid-page in a single sentence is also the same thing tabloids do: make a big title about something, then state the opposite somewhere in the actual small-print article.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#329

Post by toyg »

cthor wrote: post #312
toyg wrote: post #304

This is one of those posts I wish I could downvote 1000 times. It's the brogrammer equivalent of fake news: 22-yo kid "makes science" with a sample of 1, some videogames, and a few charts. You are 22 year old. Your body is at peak condition, built to go out and hunt for days on little food and little sleep. Of course it will work more or less fine for a few weeks.

All the limitations you mention are already explicit in the text. You have any other studies demonstrating lack of cognitive decline in 22 year olds on 4 hours sleep? Otherwise, you're just poo pooing on someone having actually having done the damn experiment. Yeah, n=1, but it's better than your n=0.

There are plenty of studies on sleep, all with larger samples and more rigorous approaches.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#330

Post by guzey »

toyg wrote: post #328
guzey wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the author of this study. >It's the brogrammer equivalent of fake news: 22-yo kid "makes science" with a sample of 1, some videogames, and a few charts. >You are 22 year old. Your body is at peak condition, built to go out and hunt for days on little food and little sleep. Of course it will work more or less fine for a few weeks. I like this comment because its author can't decide whether my study is the "equival…

You are clearly unfamiliar with the process of mass-producing fake news. It typically takes “common sense” and proceeds to mislead it through bad paths. Which is exactly what you do with this “study”: you over-analyze a situation that is relatively obvious, with a sample of 1, and simply by doing so you effectively suggest to generalize its results - which is wrong. You dropping a caveat mid-page in a single sentence…

If I had the opportunity, I would not only downvote you a 1000 times, I would outright ban you from Hacker News. Your comments are uncharitable, careless, and abrasive.

>you over-analyze a situation that is relatively obvious, with a sample of 1, and simply by doing so you effectively suggest to generalize its results - which is wrong.

>You dropping a caveat mid-page in a single sentence is also the same thing scummy tabloids do: make a big title about something, then state the opposite somewhere in the actual small-print article.

The title of my study is:

>The Effects on Cognition of Sleeping 4 Hours per Night for 12-14 Days: a Pre-Registered Self-Experiment

Which clearly tells the reader that this is a n=1 study. I'm not just dropping a caveat mid-page. If you somehow missed this, it's your problem, not mine.

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