My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk. • Hacker News Board

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#51

Post by dansingerman » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:35 PM UTC

I disagree with this.

The difference in the examples cited is not sports vs hackers, it's communication in real life vs over the interwebs.

In my experience most hackers are perfectly pleasant in person, happy to help if asked, and not substantially different to how the article describes the skaters.

Conversely, I bet if you look at some skater videos on youtube they would be full of sarcasm and piss-taking (well they would be if youtube comments weren't a massive fail in their own right)

Geeks and nerds more frequently use online media to communicate, but I don't think they are otherwise more predisposed to antosocial behaviour than anyone else.

As a datapoint, my wife uses babycentre a lot, and the disproportionate flamewars you get there are ridiculous. Put those mothers together in a room and I bet they'd be completely pleasant.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#52

Post by ddelphin » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:35 PM UTC

Could not have said it better though I doubt things will change. I hope so though!

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#53

Post by drinian » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:36 PM UTC

koko775 wrote: post #18

My policy: be nice to people. Don't be nice to ideas. IMO, ideas need harsh critique, and it's not always easy or worth it to spend the extra time padding the conversation to soften your point - it can even be counterproductive. So while I won't say that someone is stupid or dumb for suggesting the idea, I may say an idea was not well thought out if it really isn't. I expect my peers to do the same, because we're not…

The real problem seems to be people who can't separate themselves from the mistakes they make and take everything as an affront to their person. Receiving criticism means that your idea or work is at least worth considering.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#54

Post by nowarninglabel » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:37 PM UTC

Limes102 wrote: post #20

Meh. It isn't actually that important at the end of day. There are the geeks that help out and the geeks that criticise.

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#55

Post by samlevine » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:39 PM UTC

From my comment on the post on Thingist:

>I don't think you can fight human nature, only work around it. Ignore the haters that don't get $x. Ignore the haters that think what you've made sucks, or doesn't do $x and is therefore useless. Build shit. Write about how to do shit. Let them know you by the trail of OC you leave behind.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#56

Post by donniefitz2 » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:41 PM UTC

I have to say, as a former sk8er (too old now), this is typical. Skateboarders have been social Switzerland for decades. Often un-critical of ones appearance and always deep into their sport, I'm not surprised by Steve's attitude.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#57

Post by jaysonelliot » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:41 PM UTC

zach wrote: post #25

jaysonelliot wrote: post #10

I would direct anyone who thinks geeks are harsh now to read chapter 10 of "Dealers of Lightning," about the early days of Xerox PARC. They had a weekly meeting called DEALER, where the boffins would present their ideas to the group at large. A quote: "But the argument had best be carefully thought out. Anyone trying to slip an unsound concept past this group was sure to be stopped short by an explosive "Bullshit!" f…

Did they begin every sentence with "Silence!" as well?

Haha. Possibly.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#58

Post by skurland78704 » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:43 PM UTC

"...give people constructive criticisms. If their design is bad, tell them what they can do to improve it. If there code is bad, offer to help them patch it and make it better. If there spelling or grammar is off, just let it go."

I perceive a profound inconsistency.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#59

Post by MrJagil » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:47 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #36

Condescending feedback says more about the speaker than the listener. It is almost invariably about their own insecurity. This is true is almost all fields of endeavor, not just programming. Just a few examples of my own: Insecure bridge player: The queen of spades was a stupid play. What's wrong with you? Excellent bridge player: The queen of spades would have been a great play against a 4/2 split. But since you had…

Can someone please explain the logic behind "condescending feedback = insecurity"?

And I mean that sincerely. I have been thinking about this for a long time now, and I just cannot come up with any supporting evidence to explain the corelation. It might sound like a stupid request, but I think it is a hard argument to make totally water proof.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#60

Post by cydonian_monk » Mon, Mar 14, 2011, 4:48 PM UTC

Fascinating post.

Coming from an Engineering background I'd like to echo what another commenter said - Ideas must be treated harshly. If it's a bad idea then it needs to be vetted and corrected, especially if it's likely to kill someone. You owe it to the honor of the profession to do so. But you have to attack the idea and not the person. When egos are involved that's not easy, because the person may view an attack on their idea as a personal attack. Just assume the person is as intelligent as you and had a good reason for their "bad" idea. Maybe you can build on it without completely discarding it.

As for language, I've never understood the online "geek" community's tendancy to be grammar and spelling "nazis." There have been times where I've been the only native English speaker on a team, both professionally and in college. If we spent all of our time discussing Strunk and White we would have never finished what we were doing. Yet on the internet, where "exposure" to non-native speakers is commonplace, these practices seem to be the norm. Boggling. (It's one thing to be helpful, it's another to be petty. Petty strikes me as professionally immature.)

In short: A crash-course in interpersonal communications would help everybody.

Thanks for the blog post.