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Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

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Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#71

Post by supernova87a »

floatingatoll wrote: post #45
appleiigs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But i don’t think they’d be as popular without being free. I have a Garmin watch which has an app, iPhone has fitness tracking built in. Nike has a free app. The list of competitors goes on and on. Now that they have network effects and switching costs (all my historical data), time to squeeze and monetize.

Given the nearly universally hostile comments about “squeeze and monetize”, I wonder if that approach is finally winding down. Sure would be amazing if YC refused to fund anyone who didn’t charge money from day one. “If your idea isn’t worth charging for, it isn’t worth funding for.”

That would not match the growth model that investors seem to want to see (or be fooled by). If you can't show massive adoption up front in concept, how do you choose which to invest in unless you're in it for the long haul? Which seems to be out of fashion...

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#72

Post by prh8 »

SwagGrocery wrote: post #51

Strava's co-founders, who recently returned to run the company, sent a fairly transparent email to users about the changes. The rationale is clear: Strava needs to achieve profitability. They've been around for over 10 years and have completed 6 rounds of fundraising. They see three paths to profitability: 1) ads, 2) sell user data, 3) subscriptions. They're all in on option #3. The biggest challenge they face with s…

I think the biggest reason for lack of sympathy from anyone is that the platform was completely stagnant for years. I've been on there as a runner for a long time, and by the time there was any compelling reason to pay, those features had already been done either by browser add-ons or by Runalyze.

Additionally, having built (although never fully launched) an app on their APIs, they never really cared about the developer platform. There's plenty of stories around of their poor treatment of more popular apps.

And lastly, having heard stories from inside, it's just another fun times startup that burned money for fun and very little to show for it.

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#73

Post by hprotagonist »

andromeduck wrote: post #13

Strava integration with apple watch and apple health is so poor I stopped using it directly, relying instead of stuff like health fit. Having tried Summit I honestly don't understand why anyone would pay for such a lackluster experience especially for swimming. If the Activity app would allow for a bit more detailed workout sharing and basic social like likes and comments I'd be done with it entirely.

https://www.cultofmac.com/682215/healthfit-update-sync-apple...

healthfit is great.

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#74

Post by avs733 »

nradov wrote: post #40
abalashov wrote: post #10

I don't much care about these changes one way or another, but it would be very sad if they went away. For better or worse, they created far and away the best fitness platform for cyclists, if only because of the mindshare and network effects. Their analyses are also quite good. It would be a real pity if they went away, and I hope they stay solvent. I've been a paying subscriber since I first joined in Aug 2018 and a…

Strava does pretty well as a social network. But their analytics are generally weaker than TrainingPeaks or Garmin Connect.

I hope this at least solves the people 'gps bombing' certain popular segments with fake times. I use all three of those apps you mentioned and generally here is how I frame them:

TrainingPeaks - analytics, record keeping, tracking improvement, interacting with my running coach, planning build up to events, making notes to self about training. (Training and planning)

Garmin Connect - where I record, check data, and handle posting. Since buying a watch, four button clicks on my wrist has music playing and my scheduled workout timed out and just beeps at me when I need to speed up / slowdown. It probably gets me out the door 5 minutes faster than using my phone and strava which isn't nothing (Tracking).

Strava - fun way for me to interact with others. Minimal useful information, unless I'm being silly competitive against myself or others. (read: social)

It takes zero effort to have Garmin and my watch sync with both TP and GC, while if I record on Strava on my phone I have to download a file and upload it to the other two. the GC push to strava has significantly reduced my engagement with strava from once a day to once or twice a week where I bulk comment / thumbs up others workouts. If I didn't have running friends who were in other states or training peaks had social elements I would probably slowly fade to zero usage on Strava.

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#75

Post by SwagGrocery »

prh8 wrote: post #72
SwagGrocery wrote: post #51

Strava's co-founders, who recently returned to run the company, sent a fairly transparent email to users about the changes. The rationale is clear: Strava needs to achieve profitability. They've been around for over 10 years and have completed 6 rounds of fundraising. They see three paths to profitability: 1) ads, 2) sell user data, 3) subscriptions. They're all in on option #3. The biggest challenge they face with s…

I think the biggest reason for lack of sympathy from anyone is that the platform was completely stagnant for years. I've been on there as a runner for a long time, and by the time there was any compelling reason to pay, those features had already been done either by browser add-ons or by Runalyze. Additionally, having built (although never fully launched) an app on their APIs, they never really cared about the develo…

All valid criticism, but despite the stagnation no one else came along and took the KOM chasing game from Strava. And the COVID-19 pandemic has only solidified their lock on it: races are canceled so people are chasing KOM's instead.

Until people start publicly measuring their accomplishments via another platform, Strava is in good shape from the user loyalty perspective. Now, they need to figure out how to monetize. The risk is sacrificing that user loyalty capital in the pursuit of profit, but either way investors will get closure.

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#76

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

popotamonga wrote: post #50
dionidium wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a "cyclist" who absolutely loves Strava and I couldn't care any less about segments or leaderboards or beating my friends on their favorite hill. I just like to track my bike rides. I know there's a core group of hardcore cyclists who use the app like you do, but I wonder if there isn't a much wider group of people who think it's cool to track their rides and that's it.

I actually just ride to beat segments and get in the top 3 at least. This will take out a huge part of enjoying cycling outdoors for me.

you could just become a paying customer and then you don't have to lose all that enjoyment of cycling outdoors

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#77

Post by sorenjan »

appleiigs wrote: post #32
floatingatoll wrote: post #8

This is a great example of why it’s important to charge money for things up front, rather than later on. If they’d charged for these features from day 1, this could have been a glowing article about how their revenue model has helped them support feature development and build a third-party app ecosystem. They should have charged for it sooner.

But i don’t think they’d be as popular without being free. I have a Garmin watch which has an app, iPhone has fitness tracking built in. Nike has a free app. The list of competitors goes on and on. Now that they have network effects and switching costs (all my historical data), time to squeeze and monetize.

> switching costs (all my historical data)

You can use Tapiriik[0] to sync your Strava data with other services, including exporting them to a Dropbox folder. At least I think it will still work after this.

[0] https://tapiriik.com/

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#78

Post by ACow_Adonis »

nsteel wrote: post #2

Giving zero days notice to your 3rd-party developers is one way to anger a relatively powerful bunch of your users. Many people will find today that their hobby/side-project is now dead in the water. I hope nobody was relying on any income from software using these APIs. But the 'best' bit: "We realize these changes could be especially challenging for some of you, so they’ll be non-breaking for 30 days, returning emp…

Literally lol'd. That's such a corporate IT department/consulting type sentence.

"We aren't breaking the API, because its still being delivered to you. There'll be no data come through it, (and who would ever connect to an API to extract/rely upon the data coming through it) but the API IS BEING DELIVERED SO ITS NOT BREAKING!!!!"

Literally the old consultant joke: "Here's your warm coffee cup. What?! You wanted coffee in it?!"

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#79

Post by jrockway »

chihuahua wrote: post #67
alteria wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting take, and it does track with my experience as a data nerd. Also, my first time looking at myself on the leaderboards was throughly depressing

Leaderboards in popular areas are likely to be depressing. I've found some joy in tracking down Strava (cycling) segments in more out-of-the-way places and trying to post good times there. On one occasion I drove 90 minutes to the start of a 1-hour segment just to ride it and get the KOM.

I got KOM on a traffic circle in Brooklyn. I've never leaned my bike over so far in my life, it was very fun.

A few weeks later someone beat my time with an average speed of 120mph. Guess they didn't have a WAAS-enabled GPS.

Re: Strava cuts off leaderboard for free users, reduces third party apps

#80

Post by jrockway »

dionidium wrote: post #35
markus92 wrote: post #18

Cyclists are going to revolt, everyone wants to beat their friends on their favorite hill. It was one of the features I loved most about the app as I could see myself improving compared to people I have a good reference to.

I'm a "cyclist" who absolutely loves Strava and I couldn't care any less about segments or leaderboards or beating my friends on their favorite hill. I just like to track my bike rides. I know there's a core group of hardcore cyclists who use the app like you do, but I wonder if there isn't a much wider group of people who think it's cool to track their rides and that's it.

Same. I used Strava for many years but switched to TrainingPeaks. It has a very web 1.0 feel, which leads me to believe they're actually profitable ;)
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