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Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

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Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#281

Post by mdturnerphys »

missosoup wrote: post #41

There was a previous unrelated discussion about this just a few hours ago which was climbing to the top of the front page when I saw it. And then just vanished: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221264 It's not flagged, it just went from #13 on the front page to invisible. In a single refresh. How does that work? Looking at the votes and age, it should be in the top 5 of both Ask and the front page. What's the m…

Same thing happened to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20863498. I meant to email dang to ask about it but never got around to it.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#282

Post by ClumsyPilot »

toolz wrote: post #172
koheripbal wrote: post #112

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

We have loads of communication channel alternatives. People freely choose google and should be allowed to continue freely choosing whatever platform they please. The idea that some governing body can better choose my communication platform for my personal needs than I can for myself doesn't seem logical from my point of view.

Ah yes, the idea that profit driven management is a better juror of freedom than our democratic society.

Whatever they decide, they owe you no explanation or recourse. After all, these people are 'accountable' to wall street. To them 2008 and Boeing 737 were an unforceable turn of fortune, and they should bear no harm from it.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#283

Post by blululu »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #192
gabaix wrote: post #63

Youtube is in a tough spot. They will be blamed: - if they don't take down speech some consider hateful - if they take down speech some do not consider hateful 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not. If Youtube bans nothing, then hate speech thrives and they get bad PR. If Youtube bans anything anyone flags as hate speech, then they become de facto as censorship agents for foreign powers. Anything crit…

> 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not This is where the legal concept of protected classes may be helpful. They're sets of attributes society has deemed one cannot discriminate against. That tends to line up well with said society's line between insulting and hateful. As a legal definition, these class definitions tend to be precise. That makes them convenient for exporting. Notably, political affil…

I like this idea, but it is hard to apply such a criteria across borders. In California, for instance, political affiliation is considered a protected class. The omission of political affiliation from the nationally protected classes in the US is a direct consequence of the persecution of communists during the Cold War. This is actually not a great idea when you consider that it essentially legalizes political persecution of the sort that you find in various dictatorships (a little ironic in this context).

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#284

Post by jader201 »

missosoup wrote: post #41

There was a previous unrelated discussion about this just a few hours ago which was climbing to the top of the front page when I saw it. And then just vanished: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221264 It's not flagged, it just went from #13 on the front page to invisible. In a single refresh. How does that work? Looking at the votes and age, it should be in the top 5 of both Ask and the front page. What's the m…

I had a similar thing happen to my post [1] a month or so ago — one minute it was #1, then after a refresh, it vanished. No flag (that I know of), no explanation.

When things happen like this, explanations are helpful to the submitter and/or the commenters, whichever was causing the problems.

I suppose this opens things up for debate, but not sure a silent removal of content is great for the community either.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22633570

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#285

Post by manigandham »

shadowgovt wrote: post #203
manigandham wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to realize "hate speech" is mostly subjective and revert back to the clear rules that we had last decade before the current political climate of gratuitous outrage.

Sadly, can't agree. The rules we had in the last decade weren't actually working; they only appeared to work. They looked like they were creating conflict-free environments, but they were really creating environments where, in general, minority populations hate speech was targeted against weren't using the tools or participating in the forums that had a laissez-faire attitude on such things.

What do you mean by not "actually working"? What is a "conflict-free environment"? What does hate speech have to do with minority populations? Do people within those populations never say hateful things, even to each other? How do you know they never participated in any forums?

This sounds like an awful lot of assumptions.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#286

Post by reaperducer »

nialv7 wrote: post #152
ddevault wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't justify their behavior - it condemns it.

Yeah, but it's a good reason for a lot of them to keep working at the company and turn a deaf ear towards what it's been doing.

it's a good reason for a lot of them to keep working at the company and turn a deaf ear towards what it's been doing.

It's a reason. It's not a good reason.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#288

Post by o10449366 »

BoorishBears wrote: post #166
atomashpolskiy wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've posted an AskHN about self-regulation mechanisms on HN just today and instantly got flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23220998 Please upvote another attempt: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23223939

I remember seeing an exchange where a moderator seemed to be able to edit another person's comment well after the edit period with no indication an edit was made. Kind of hope I misunderstood the exchange, but if that's the case that instantly undermines any possible claim to being "ultimate place on the Web to discover and discuss bleeding-edge content" In general HN is not that place anyways. People here confuse me…

I also don't appreciate it when comments are detached from their parents without a note from the moderators. I've had a few comments taken completely out of context because they were detached from their parent into their own top-level comment.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#289

Post by qubex »

duxup wrote: post #157
qubex wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the Chinese market is huge. Because freedom of speech in the Western world is an individual liberty which platforms such as YouTube do not need to guarantee, whereas censorship in China is an absolute requirement they must abide by. The payoffs are asymmetric. If we had legislation in the EU or in the US that demanded that YouTube not tamper with users’ comments, then they’d have to choose between one side an…

That doesn't really answer the question of that other user. Google largely has largely taken being excluded from China in stride, the other user is wondering why they would do this now.

As another user posted, there’s a long list of terms dating back to 2012, so this isn’t recent. Even the post referred to dates from the end of 2019, so it isn’t exactly novel.

Google might well accept being excluded from China, but I’m assuming that the prospect of being allowed to re-enter that market is periodically dangled in front of them by the ruling party in China, and that consequentially Google has an ongoing motive to somewhat abide by the PRC’s rules.

Also, Google may be excluded from China, but Google also has a lot to lose if relations with China deteriorate, for example, if China somehow interferes with the primacy of Android there and therefore causes a massive dent in platform numbers.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#290

Post by reaperducer »

virvar wrote: post #111
ddevault wrote: post #38

Google & YouTube employees on HN: how do you justify still working at this company? Enough of the cognitive dissonance. Face your choices and tell me how you square yourself with them. For shame.

How do you buy hardware? I’m genuinely asking because where I live it’s impossible to buy stuff that wasn’t made in China. It’s almost impossible to lead en ethical life in this day and age if you do anything related to tech.

It’s almost impossible to lead en ethical life in this day and age if you do anything related to tech.

So the lesson is: Being ethical in one way is hard, so don't bother being ethical in any aspect of your life?

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