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Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

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Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#251

Post by linuxftw »

missosoup wrote: post #41

There was a previous unrelated discussion about this just a few hours ago which was climbing to the top of the front page when I saw it. And then just vanished: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221264 It's not flagged, it just went from #13 on the front page to invisible. In a single refresh. How does that work? Looking at the votes and age, it should be in the top 5 of both Ask and the front page. What's the m…

I've participated in several active, somewhat neutral threads here that have disappeared entirely from the site with no indication that they have. Unable to find by browsing backwards by new or backwards from front page.

The one in question was that new Michael Moore documentary. There was a lively discussion, but obviously didn't fit the established narrative here, and it was disappeared.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#252

Post by ekianjo »

fastball wrote: post #165
ekianjo wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m genuinely asking because where I live it’s impossible to buy stuff that wasn’t made in China. So wait, now buying something that was made in China means condoning the CCP? That's a pretty big jump in logic.

Is it? You are effectively funding the CCP every time you purchase something from China.

I am paying my taxes to my government as well, does not mean I agree with everything my government does. When it comes to purchasing certain categories of items (like electronics) you have no choice but to buy something made in China, most of the time.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#253

Post by manigandham »

RIMR wrote: post #225

What an infantile understanding of the issue. The reason that hate speech creates outrage is because it exists to communicate inhuman hatred of others for their immutable characteristics. The reason that sites like YouTube don't tolerate it isn't that they share in the outrage - it's that they rely entirely on advertisers to keep their bottom line positive, and advertisers aren't going to pay to be associated with ha…

Where does it say that hate speech is about immutable characteristics? Is that your subjective personal definition?

Advertisers really don't care that much (and I'm speaking as a 12 year adtech veteran). They play into popular culture and are being carried along with the increasingly sensitive social environment online. Also we're talking about comments, not video content, and it's futile to try and control how others react.

> "It can be easily identified using a few easy qualifiers."

Anyone can find anything offensive and hateful. That's the opposite of easily identified.

> "Most people who have trouble defining hate speech are people who, at least partially, agree with it."

Because it's subjective, according to who's defining it.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#254

Post by qubex »

ecmascript wrote: post #131
qubex wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may not be the Federal Government you want to legislate over Google...

Dude, I am from Europe. I don't care what government does it just that somebody does something. In fact, I think the Trump administration is probably perfectly suited to do this.

Dude, I’m in Europe too. If you think the Trump administration is “perfectly suited” to do anything... well, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I certainly don’t agree with you about that.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#255

Post by yashap »

ddevault wrote: post #38

Google & YouTube employees on HN: how do you justify still working at this company? Enough of the cognitive dissonance. Face your choices and tell me how you square yourself with them. For shame.

I’m not a Google employee, but really all companies of large enough size care only about the bottom line. Large companies don’t have morals, they just try to make money at all costs, full stop. Google is a bit more hypocritical in that they pretend to be about more than this, but lots of companies are similarly hypocritical, especially tech companies. It’s really only small businesses that have any sort of humanity (sometimes).

Google pay better than most, and if you’re on the right team I assume you get to work on very interesting/challenging projects. They’re just as heartless/selfish as any other bigco, but I don’t know that they’re worse.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#256

Post by 101404 »

gabaix wrote: post #63

Youtube is in a tough spot. They will be blamed: - if they don't take down speech some consider hateful - if they take down speech some do not consider hateful 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not. If Youtube bans nothing, then hate speech thrives and they get bad PR. If Youtube bans anything anyone flags as hate speech, then they become de facto as censorship agents for foreign powers. Anything crit…

"some consider hateful"...

There will always be "some people" to consider anything hateful. Maybe we should just all stop communicating with each other, so nobody gets "hurt".

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#257

Post by the8472 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #233
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally, this is the issue with international corporations in the speech realm. People will believe and argue they shouldn't be subject to a given country's laws or have to apply that law globally, but in a real world sense, they must follow all of the laws of any country they want to operate in, no matter how ridiculous or unfair they might feel. Because if you aren't obeying a country's laws, they'll shut you…

Yep. In some cases, Google has addressed this by Balkanizing their rulesets. Sometimes semi-literally; the territorial boundaries Google Maps shows are contingent upon the request's point of origin in some disputed regions [ https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/04/12/302337754... ] Using such an approach on the global channels like YT comments isn't an option (unless they choose to Balkanize them, and let onl…

> Using such an approach on the global channels like YT comments isn't an option (unless they choose to Balkanize them, and let only Chinese commenters talk to Chinese people).

That doesn't seem unreasonable. They could hide filtered comments from chinese users. This would allow the rest of the world to be unaffected by chinese regulation and "allowed" speech between chinese and foreigners.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#258

Post by dodobirdlord »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #212
willis936 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. It's almost like the missions of popular websites fall in line with protecting individuals against government-sponsored attacks on whistleblowers. Witness protection isn't some flashy thing in movies. It's real and society benefits from it.

1. I imagine state actors have better information than Wikipedia editors. 2. Leaving that aside, why permanently ban those who make such contributions to Wikipedia?

1. State actors also have a long and established history of abuses of power. We should not defer to what they have to say on issues related to their possible abuses.

2. Propensity for creating such a page is a strong indication of extremely poor judgement.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#259

Post by specialp »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #192
gabaix wrote: post #63

Youtube is in a tough spot. They will be blamed: - if they don't take down speech some consider hateful - if they take down speech some do not consider hateful 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not. If Youtube bans nothing, then hate speech thrives and they get bad PR. If Youtube bans anything anyone flags as hate speech, then they become de facto as censorship agents for foreign powers. Anything crit…

> 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not This is where the legal concept of protected classes may be helpful. They're sets of attributes society has deemed one cannot discriminate against. That tends to line up well with said society's line between insulting and hateful. As a legal definition, these class definitions tend to be precise. That makes them convenient for exporting. Notably, political affil…

Yes but that is a difficult thing even in our society in the US. Then to project that to the world is harder. In the USA we have values that tend to see political censorship as evil, but in some other countries they see political criticism as insulting and a hindrance to government. I too thought for a long time that any place that censored or punished political dissidents probably was a place that had people yearning to be free. It is not necessarily true as we see in China. I don't agree with it from my values but then again I don't know what is good for the entire Earth.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#260

Post by baq »

brmgb wrote: post #139
missosoup wrote: post #41

There was a previous unrelated discussion about this just a few hours ago which was climbing to the top of the front page when I saw it. And then just vanished: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221264 It's not flagged, it just went from #13 on the front page to invisible. In a single refresh. How does that work? Looking at the votes and age, it should be in the top 5 of both Ask and the front page. What's the m…

Some users tend to flag stories about China and censorship because they generate a lot of nationalistic and hot headed comments and very little actual intelligent discussion. Just look at the comments attached to this submission.

the best and surest way to have your account deleted from facebook is to post porn.

the best and surest way to delete an inconvenient discussion from hn is to spam it with a political flame war.

i don't have proof that this is the case here but i wouldn't be surprised that such threads are actively heated up and/or gaslighted by nation state sponsored censors.

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