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Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

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Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#231

Post by jeffreyrogers »

svjatoslav wrote: post #141

I asked Richard Stallman this question: His answer was: Live cheaply. Eric S. Raymond answer was: Be independently wealthy. I have tried to reach billionaire philanthropists (Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak, Dean Kamen, Warren Buffet, and others) with the idea that there are very talented people around who have brilliant ideas (say for instance another Newton or Mozart) but are not financially independent to afford to work…

I was at a lunch years ago where some former Microsoft executive was present. Really wealthy guy and now doing some sort of policy advocacy or something. This was around the time of the Heartbleed bug in OpenSSL and he was talking about the need to improve software security by creating some committees or something[0]. I suggested to him that since OpenSSL was already widely used and operating with very few employees on a tiny budget it would be a better investment of time and money to just give OpenSSL a couple million dollars to audit their code and clean it up. He was sort-of flustered by this suggestion and talked about how that doesn't solve the problem because there is just so much software that is insecure. Now, obviously that is true, but I don't see how his proposal to solve the problem by having meetings was any better.

I think really wealthy people have two problems when it comes to this: (1) there are a lot of people out there who want money but can't deliver. (2) many of these wealthy people, like the guy I mentioned above, want to be actively involved in solving problems. He didn't want to give money to OpenSSL because his only role there would be giving them money. Instead, he wanted to create some organization with his name on it so that he could be seen to be doing something.

[0]: I don't remember exactly what his proposal was, but I remember thinking it sounded really bureaucratic and unlikely to have any real benefits in practice.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#232

Post by _frkl »

sudhirj wrote: post #229
orlandohill wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that most companies would use Redimo on their web servers. In that case, the GPL wouldn't require them to do anything, so they could always use the software for free. Even the AGPL wouldn't help much, because it would only require companies to open source software that directly extends or modifies Redimo. MongoDB dropped their use of AGPL for exactly that reason. Have you considered using the Parity Public…

I did, might still go that route, but Redimo isn’t a web server (although I am building one that I’m planning to license under Mongo’s SSPL). The code is a Go / Ruby / JS library that builds with your code, so think the GPL does apply. As far as I know the LGPL doesn’t trigger if no modifications are made to the library itself. Wanted to choose only well known licenses, but I am looking at other options. LicenseZero…

Two small things: I might have mis-understood you, but you can't sell Apache licenses for those who need them without those people subsequently having the right to give away your code under that (open) license to anyone they like. Which means, if worst comes to worst, you'd sell exactly one license. Also, there is talk about LicenseZero becoming more flexible in the near future as to which private licenses are offered to buyers (e.g. company-wide licenses), so I'd watch that space.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#234

Post by airstrike »

umvi wrote: post #192
ddevault wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25 FTEs is an incredible achievement, and you should be very proud. The rewards are enormous - VideoLAN has a massive impact on human culture, more so than 99% of all businesses. Taking on VC to "grow" may be difficult, but is it something you really need to do? What you've built is amazing, and if you can sustain it at its current size, you'd be doing wonderful work. Endlessly chasing growth is a fool's errand, and…

> 25 FTEs is an incredible achievement, and you should be very proud. I know this is a stupid question, but I tried googling and it wasn't obvious... what does FTE stand for? "Full Time Equivalent?" Does that mean they are paying for 25 full time employees?

It's full-time employee in this context, but if you ever need to search for an acronym definition again in the future try

https://www.acronymfinder.com/FTE.html

;-)

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#235

Post by mperham »

I wrote sidekiq.org starting 8 years ago and blogged about my experiences over time, e.g.

https://www.mikeperham.com/2012/08/26/the-sidekiq-experiment...

I sell closed source Pro and Enterprise focused feature packs for my OSS projects. This is known as "open core".

My first full year in 2013 I sold $85k.

I'm in the millions ARR now.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#236

Post by kemitchell »

rikroots wrote: post #83
feross wrote: post #19

Sustainability is another way to say subsistence. The dirty secret of open source is that much of it is powered by maintainer guilt. If you’re looking to make money, I don’t recommend you get into open source. I wish this weren’t the case, but this is the current situation. Unfortunately, it seems the best path if you want to do open source as a career is to do enough open source to get your name out there and then l…

> Don’t be afraid to ask for money This is where I fall over - damn my parents for teaching me to feel guilty about asking for money! > One great hack for finding out who is using your package is to open an issue called "Who is using this?" and ask for testimonials or offer to put users' logos or links in the README under a "Who uses this" section This is a fantastic idea - I'm going to try it! If companies don't kno…

Asking for money can come across and feel very differently, depending on culture and context. But the simple fact is that if you don't ask, you are overwhelmingly unlikely to receive, no matter how dire your need or cost-effective the opportunity. Especially if you're mostly interacting through a low-context, low-friction medium like the Net.

Especially in those situations, doing right by one another depends on a rich environment of information about costs, benefits, needs, and opportunities. You have to talk frankly about your time, money, and interest, and you have encourage and listen to others when they do so. Otherwise, nobody can have any confidence that people are being treated fairly, rather than seething or starving in silence, and good work is being rewarded.

I've tried in the past to write up a few of the basic lessons we all learn the hard way in freelance work:

https://blog.licensezero.com/2017/10/16/mercenary-rapport.ht...

To spoil it:

Give as you take.

Talk frankly about time and money.

Slice the pie fairly.

Keep your integrity at all costs.

Pay help forward to new people.

Honest pay for honest work.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#237

Post by sudhirj »

_frkl wrote: post #232
sudhirj wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did, might still go that route, but Redimo isn’t a web server (although I am building one that I’m planning to license under Mongo’s SSPL). The code is a Go / Ruby / JS library that builds with your code, so think the GPL does apply. As far as I know the LGPL doesn’t trigger if no modifications are made to the library itself. Wanted to choose only well known licenses, but I am looking at other options. LicenseZero…

Two small things: I might have mis-understood you, but you can't sell Apache licenses for those who need them without those people subsequently having the right to give away your code under that (open) license to anyone they like. Which means, if worst comes to worst, you'd sell exactly one license. Also, there is talk about LicenseZero becoming more flexible in the near future as to which private licenses are offere…

Thanks for the Apache note, I didn’t realise that. Will pull that option and replace it with what’s here https://indieopensource.com/for-indies

Indieopensource.com is a pretty great resource. Same author as License Zero. Was recommended to me when I was asking about company purchases on LicenseZero - Kyle suggested I charge companies more and use the private license from on that site. It prevents customers from re-releasing the code under any other license.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#238

Post by samblr »

mperham wrote: post #235

I wrote sidekiq.org starting 8 years ago and blogged about my experiences over time, e.g. https://www.mikeperham.com/2012/08/26/the-sidekiq-experiment... I sell closed source Pro and Enterprise focused feature packs for my OSS projects. This is known as "open core". My first full year in 2013 I sold $85k. I'm in the millions ARR now.

Your talk on IndieHackers was amazing.

Could you please point to how licensing works in open source. I get the user has to buy license - is it like a key that talks to your server or how do you stop the abuse etc ?

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#239

Post by orlandohill »

sudhirj wrote: post #229
orlandohill wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that most companies would use Redimo on their web servers. In that case, the GPL wouldn't require them to do anything, so they could always use the software for free. Even the AGPL wouldn't help much, because it would only require companies to open source software that directly extends or modifies Redimo. MongoDB dropped their use of AGPL for exactly that reason. Have you considered using the Parity Public…

I did, might still go that route, but Redimo isn’t a web server (although I am building one that I’m planning to license under Mongo’s SSPL). The code is a Go / Ruby / JS library that builds with your code, so think the GPL does apply. As far as I know the LGPL doesn’t trigger if no modifications are made to the library itself. Wanted to choose only well known licenses, but I am looking at other options. LicenseZero…

The GPL won't help you if companies are only using Redimo on their own computers. The GPL only becomes 'viral' when people distribute software to others.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#240

Post by sudhirj »

orlandohill wrote: post #239
sudhirj wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did, might still go that route, but Redimo isn’t a web server (although I am building one that I’m planning to license under Mongo’s SSPL). The code is a Go / Ruby / JS library that builds with your code, so think the GPL does apply. As far as I know the LGPL doesn’t trigger if no modifications are made to the library itself. Wanted to choose only well known licenses, but I am looking at other options. LicenseZero…

The GPL won't help you if companies are only using Redimo on their own computers. The GPL only becomes 'viral' when people distribute software to others.

Hmm, thanks, I’m slowly starting to see that now. Will probably just move to LicenseZero.
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