Live data from Hacker News

Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

dw.com

171–180 of 262 posts

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#171
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never felt I was earning worse than on US, while enjoying my 30 days vacations, home office, unemployment support, health insurance and having a privileged life above many of my friends in "regular" (non-IT related) jobs.

In which country is 30 days standard vacation?

Probably all of the EU. There's usually 23+ days of holiday and another ~8 of bank (national) holiday.

In the UK I have 25 days of holiday and the 8 bank holidays.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#172
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We pay devs worse because software is a complete aftertought, and the guys who produce it therefore are not seen as adding much value, if any. Meanwhile, the "software is eating the world" memo is almost 10 years old yet nobody this side of the pond got it. Fix this mindset (good luck!), which is the real issue, and dev wages will correct themselves too.

I never felt I was earning worse than on US, while enjoying my 30 days vacations, home office, unemployment support, health insurance and having a privileged life above many of my friends in "regular" (non-IT related) jobs.

30 day vacations aren't the norm in most of the places. Everything else is offered in IT jobs in US plus double the average European salary.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that in US salary is significantly higher than in EU. Probably that's the main differentiator.

Can confirm, moved from London (while it was still EU) to NYC and literally doubled my pay

Ironic considering I would _at_least_ double my pay just moving to London (from north Italy, of course col is very different unless you live in Milan which is comparable to London but still with worse pay).

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#174
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never felt I was earning worse than on US, while enjoying my 30 days vacations, home office, unemployment support, health insurance and having a privileged life above many of my friends in "regular" (non-IT related) jobs.

In which country is 30 days standard vacation?

In Germany the minimum is 20 days but pretty much everyone I know has either 25 or 30. Plus 10 bank holidays of course.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#175
post #58

This is part of a broader problem. Many "apps" from WhatsApp to Zoom are treated as public spaces by citizens. But, legally the app-space is closer to a private space. This creates a mismatch between reality and expectations. (Zuckerberg can delete his chat history and you could not until Europe passed legislation forcing Facebook to do so.) I suffered the "Windows only" of gubernamental applications that excluded Li…

>The USA is in a position to shutdown all the technological infrastructure of Europe (AWS, Google, Facebook, Azure, ...) and to openly spy its citizens OK, and what can we do about that? We build our own successful cars, we build our own successful planes but it seems like when it comes to building highly scalable world dominating software we are powerless even though our universities churn out tons of talented CS en…

> What does the US do right that we do wrong here? Besides paying our devs worse.

The reason there is really no cool tech firms in the EU is because the EU economic policies make them impossible.

Working for a startup is an extremely risky decision. As a top engineer, you get shitty pay, and a really good options package that in most cases ends up being worth nothing because most startups fail.

In the US, however, if your startup cashes out, you end up rich. This is not only a life changing experience, some of these rich top tech engineers end up creating their own startups afterwards with the money they make, which perpetuates the cycle.

In Europe, if as a top engineer your startup cashes out, you only end up marginally better than if you had had an 8-5 job at BigTech (Google, Apple, Microsoft). Almost 50% of your cashout goes away in taxes, and the rest barely compensates the bad paid you got the last 5-10 years of your life, and if you take "worked hours/week" into account, quality of life, and risk taken, the value proposition is just a joke.

Startups already have a very hard time flourishing with top talent. Europe makes it almost impossible for these to attract top talent, so that's why you don't see as many unicorns here as you do in the US.

This doesn't mean there aren't any startups in Europe. There are. There are just much fewer than in the US, have an even lower success rate, and a less qualified and risk-friendlier employee base.

Source: my own personal experience job hunting in Germany, for many US startups operating here, where most of them actually try to offer BigTech salaries without option packages because they know option packages do not make sense here.

Source 2: https://notoptional.eu/

Techcrunch: https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/27/30-european-startup-ceos-c...

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the backup is really bad... WhatsApp put so much effort into the E2E encryption and then just dumped the backups on Google. It was all just window dressing. I bet this is also why the intelligence agencies aren't pounding on them for having E2E encryption, obviously Google is an open book to them. And Google has access to all your history for their own purposes. Of course you can choose to turn off the backups,…

The idea of end-to-end encryption is just too broken. You always need to make sure that the implementation of the idea isn't controlled by the vendor from which it is supposed to protect you. But it is pretty much never the case, all the WhatsApps, Signals, etc. control implementations, updates and openly fight against attempts to decentralize or weaken that control, making sure that ultimately they are the ones deci…

> The idea of end-to-end encryption is just too broken. You always need to make sure that the implementation of the idea isn't controlled by the vendor from which it is supposed to protect you. But it is pretty much never the case, all the WhatsApps, Signals, etc. control implementations, updates and openly fight against attempts to decentralize or weaken that control, making sure that ultimately they are the ones deciding whether they get access to your data or not.

Note that the client side apps are available for researchers to study. If they find a back door, it will be a big publicity issue for the app vendor.

Your concern is still valid though. Both Whatsapp and Signal could announce tomorrow that they drop E2EE or add some feature (like a default on non-disable-able cloud based spellchecker) and there is nothing you could do to protect your correspondence.

Matrix is different here that it encourages independent implementations as well as end to end encryption.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#178

And does the German government care what the data chief says or is this just a HN-feel-good article of no consequence or substance?

This is the data privacy commissioner giving an advisory on what the law means. The government is bound by the law.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#180
post #93
post #19

For further reading (in German), there's been a nice and well-researched article on Golem a while ago: https://www.golem.de/news/datenschutz-duerfen-aerzte-lehrer-... Also, Microsoft sending Cease and Desist letter to the German city-state of Berlin as it wrote a policy advising against Skype (German too): https://www.t-online.de/digital/internet/id_87890600/skype-u...

And the German army just announced it follows the French government in migrating its instant messaging entirely to Matrix. https://www.golem.de/news/messenger-bundeswehr-will-komplett... (and recent discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23152780 )

I'm very glad of this development. Kelber has repeatedly made public statements in support of Matrix. Hope that more German government entities will adopt it.
Post reply on HN