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Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

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Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#111

Post by giantg2 »

drunkpotato wrote: post #68

It seems that half your question is about experience, and half is indirectly asking for advice. So, experience: My experience is the opposite. Since having kids, I have been ruthless about changing jobs as needed, standing up for what I need, and getting a lot more money on each career move. I was much more lax on these matters before, and would spend countless hours on pointless drivel. I still spend hours on drivel…

Thanks! I read that book and "Exactly What to Say". I found them both interesting but the individual managers at my company have little power. The rating and compensation is done at a meeting of all the managers in a the department. So I can make my case to my manager, but I have no real representation at that meeting.

Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#113

Post by giantg2 »

yojo wrote: post #16

Being a parent helps build a skill set that can help you level up your career - if your employer values them. It can also make you less interested in that advancement. My own anecdote: I have two kids (3 and 1). I’ve experienced a bit of a leap in soft skills; empathy, mentorship, and patience, to name a few. This has corresponded with me taking on many more leadership responsibilities in my team, and being recognize…

Wow, they offer you promotions? My company makes you apply for all except the entry level to mid level jump.

Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#114

Post by willj »

loxists_locusts wrote: post #101
jumelles wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really saying that people without children shouldn’t vote?

To those who consciously and deliberately avoid it for childish, irresponsible, misguided and selfish reasons: yes. They've decided not to have a stake in the future of our nation. They've proven themselves incapable of long-term planning beyond their own immediate gratification. They have no skin in the game. Why would we want them to vote? How could we possibly trust them to make responsible decisions with their tr…

> If the devil offered them $10 cash on condition that the world is swallowed in flames in 100 years, what's to stop them?

Umm... just knowing and doing what’s right? Is having children the only thing stopping you from doing that sort of thing (metaphors aside)?

You often get this from religious folk: “if you don’t believe in God, what’s to stop you from killing people?”. I would flip it the other way: is God the only thing preventing you from killing people? Because if so, that’s terrifying.

Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#115

Post by apohn »

AshArchangel wrote: post #21

What's interesting is that I have observed the opposite in my career. I have often seen that employees who have children are afforded more flexibility, shorter hours, and less work than those who do not have children. While I understand these are necessary if you have children, a disproportionate amount of work and higher expectations are given to those without children in my office. For example, if you have a child,…

I suspect one big difference is that when you have young children is that you can't bend on "No, I can't work." When you don't have young children you can bend (even if you don't want to), and you say "No" but do "Maybe."

I've seen this with people before they have kids and after the kids are a little older. They occasionally bend and work a bit extra, check emails after hours, etc, and then before you know the it the manager expects this person is available since they did it before.

Sadly, at one company where I worked the young single person had to lie and say they were heavily involved with educational activities at their church and they couldn't work extended hours because of that. I know they were not 100% honest about the hours required for that, but management needed some mental excuse to say it's okay for them to just work normal hours. It's stupid, but sometimes that's the only way to do it.

Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#116

Post by apohn »

reuven wrote: post #51

Yes, kids take time. Lots of time. So if you believe that more time at a work is better, and that it's a zero-sum game (i.e., time with children will take away from time at work), then yes, having children will be bad for your career. But there's a ton wrong with that thinking. First: Exercise takes time away from work. Vacations take time away from work. Sleeping takes time away from work. And yet, even the most die…

>Yes, kids take time. Lots of time. So if you believe that more time at a work is better, and that it's a zero-sum game (i.e., time with children will take away from time at work), then yes, having children will be bad for your career.

>There's no doubt that children can be maddening, frustrating, and time consuming. Especially when they're young, they demand lots of attention. But in my case, all of that frustration was easily counterbalanced by the joy, excitement, and fulfillment that comes from having children, speaking with them, and learning from them.

All of the above!

One way I try to think about this is by looking at all the people I've worked with who are at the top of the ladder. CxO, EVPx, GM, etc. The vast majority of them work crazy hours, travel all the time, are constantly attached to their email, etc. They only way for them to do that is to sacrifice time with their families and have a partner who basically does all the family stuff.

If that's what you want AND you want to spend lots of time with your kids, then kids are going to be an impediment to that. If that's not what you want, then I think it's question of finding a balance between what you want out of your career and life. Most certainly if your kids are very young and you want to spend time with them, your career might move a little slower.

Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#117

Post by apohn »

basseq wrote: post #73
new_realist wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have all of these attributes and have kids, you will not progress as fast as someone who has all of these attributes and no kids: they have more time, more energy, more sleep, and more money. They can afford to take more risks. Finally, they probably have an aching void in their personal life which they will try to fill with career ambition. This is all reflected in women’s pay statistics: those who wait to ha…

My point is that having kids massively strengthened those attributes in me—and others I've spoken with. I wouldn't have been in the same position otherwise. All this is to say... it's not about fast or slow. It's about different and finding what works. And there are counter-examples, too. I worked with a guy who ran a global business unit—a couple billion dollars, probably—and had 5 kids. Might he have been even more…

>If you're good and driven, it doesn't matter.

So I don't mean to be a pedantic ass here, but the "I'm a CEO and I have a wonderful home life" is probably the exception, not the rule. The reality is that you can't be a CEO on a 9-5 schedule. You probably have a lot of help for all those times you have to travel, stay late, leave early, etc. Something is going to be scarified.

That being said, you can have a successful career without becoming a CEO or running a global business unit. So it's not 100% career or 100% family.

Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#118

Post by basseq »

apohn wrote: post #117
basseq wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that having kids massively strengthened those attributes in me—and others I've spoken with. I wouldn't have been in the same position otherwise. All this is to say... it's not about fast or slow. It's about different and finding what works. And there are counter-examples, too. I worked with a guy who ran a global business unit—a couple billion dollars, probably—and had 5 kids. Might he have been even more…

>If you're good and driven, it doesn't matter. So I don't mean to be a pedantic ass here, but the "I'm a CEO and I have a wonderful home life" is probably the exception, not the rule. The reality is that you can't be a CEO on a 9-5 schedule. You probably have a lot of help for all those times you have to travel, stay late, leave early, etc. Something is going to be scarified. That being said, you can have a successfu…

Absolutely true. You have to decide where your priorities are, and what you’re willing to sacrifice.

My point was the simpler one that having kids in of itself doesn’t hold you back.

Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#119

Post by tuckerpo »

Eh, having children is kind of your literal biologic imperative. Pushing my blood on for another generation, having some sort of legacy and living on in people's memories postmortem are all things I value. Any random company that would drop me like a sack of potatoes if they needed to for whatever reason comes second to family for me, and I don't even have kids.

That being said, the engineers I know who have kids use it in one of two ways. They either try to use it as leverage for a better WLB to spend more time with their families (or, if they're not the world's best parent, to take a vacation under the guise of caring deeply for their kid), OR they go full on cut-throat sociopath career mode to enable the best life (financially) that they can for their family. Then there's the wildcard option: company doesn't care at all about your new priorities and nothing changes. That's when you brush up your resume and try to find somewhere with a management team made of human beings instead of lizard people (or the aforementioned career sociopaths).

Re: Ask HN: Do kids drag your career down?

#120

Post by lcall »

The greatest joys, rewards, and challenges in life (growth opportunities) come from family (including extended family where possible). (Plus that it simply doesn't look like a good prospect to rely only on government strangers to take care of us when we are old! We can be good to our nieces/nephews too, and others of course.)

In my belief system, these important, challenging, and joyful relationships can extend into eternity as well, if we choose to make the necessary commitments (specific covenants with God) and keep them, learning and improving throughout our lifetimes. Money is like nothing, in comparison.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/the-family-...

https://www.comeuntochrist.org/beliefs/family

(more at my own web site, linked from my profile, or http://lukecall.net )

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