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The Death of Couchsurfing?

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Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but a mvp that does 75% of it is definitely possible in a weekend for a pair of really good in-the-zone coders. I'd argue that if you actually list out all these minor features fully, it's even possible to flesh it out completely in 4-5 very long days. Even otherwise, this could easily be a site that starts with a full weekend of work for mvp, followed by gradual refininig over the next few months with feedback…

I hope you did better than Netflix. It's horrible to navigate. For example it's really really not obvious how you find previous seasons of a show.

I've been following Netflix for really long, and whatever downgrade in their UX is absolutely deliberate on their part to hide their library's flaws.

If you really wish to go back to the original view, you should consider giving Netflix dvd a try. You get DVDs and on top of it the original site with five star ratings, predicted rating and most importantly the ability to sort by predicted rating in any genre!

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#122
post #12

Couchsurfing was fantastic in its early days, then came the era of using websites for just-a-little-bit-too-much-dating, then they went .com and tried to be "cool" with redesigns, eventually drowning the simplicity of their concept a little bit too much. That $25 yearly fee slapped onto everything, with no chance to even connect with previous contacts, is disappointing to say the least. No doubt that the meaning of "…

Their app is also pretty bad, to the point it became standard to just exchange whatsapp numbers right off the bat to make communication possible.

Couchsurfing has a great community, but it has been resting on its laurels for too long.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#123

So I imagine there's a lot of people here that don't know Couchsurfing or what the big deal is. Couchsurfing has been one of the most important things in my life, so I'll do my best to explain why it's so special. The basic idea is you stay at a stranger's place, or you host a stranger at yours - completely for free, no money involved. Everyone does it differently. Some people plan their trip meticulously months in a…

Oddly enough, your experience with CouchSurfing very much matches my initial experience with AirBnb, back in the days when they were still small. My experience with CouchSurfing, on the other hand, was weird. When me and my roommates (3 guys, 2 girls) signed up our shared house (in waking distance of a touristic city center), we were expecting to see lots of backpackers and tourists our age. Instead, most of our gues…

That is indeed very unusual, I've never heard of an experience like that! I wonder what happened, maybe they were all part of a group or something?

Middle aged women make up a very small percentage of Couchsurfing, and when I see them they're usually hosts only. I get a ton of requests, and I think it'd be more likely for me to get a message from an astronaut than two middle aged women.

I just checked my references and my friends' references and didn't find one woman over 40. I really wonder what happened in your case!

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#124

Can't read story about Couchsurfing paywall as the article is behind paywall ;)

Well folks, in these changed times it seems that the last artefacts of the old world have been firmly cemented in history, as Couchsurfing International Inc. decides to unilaterally charge its members, eroding away the last remnants of community spirit and hammering the final nail in the capitalist coffin it built for itself. The fact Couchsurfing didn’t warn or consult the community it hosts that the company was swi…

Couchsurfing admits on its own blog that 4% of its users have contributed to the platform before the recent announcement. Considering that at time of writing it has well over 15 million users, at 4% that’s at least $15 million dollars alone if everyone paid the verification fee only once (based on the only feasible way to contribute — the $25 verification fee per year). The management has probably worked out, while they sip lattes over Zoom, that even if there is a mass exodus and those without any principles at all remain, they will still miraculously break even.

In contrast, BeWelcome, a similar but much less popular platform, covered their finances with less than $10,000. BeWelcome is also completely transparent about their finances. Everyone who has used Couchsurfing knows that policy has slowly — although not imperceptibly — changed over the years. The sole aim since it changed from .org to .com has been to increase its membership and with that the hope that its members will pay to be verified under the controversial pretext that this makes the community safer. As a host, I can say this “safer” mantra is nonsense. It’s the references I care about. It’s what the community, not the bank, say about you that I care about.

Of course, Couchsurfing will never die for good. Its apparition will live on in the memories of original users, their profiles as tombstones representing an age — however brief — where three great things: the internet, travel and the human spirit combined to create an enviable community accessible to anyone with an internet connection. Considering the incredible stories, the global relationships and shared interests of locals, there is little doubt that Couchsurfing changed the world. Just how many people turned a new era in their lives through a friendship which can be traced back to Couchsurfing? For a while it flew in the face of the monetisation of simple travel, even as a for-profit company it triumphed as the lefty nemesis of Airbnb and the boutique hostel craze which swept the world; now rearranging its company structure to join them, having long replaced the wording of its most fundamental function from “community” to “profit”. Over the last years, the true community still struggled on, creating events and meet-ups and ignoring the new requests from creepy men with empty profiles, while in the background $22.6 million was quietly being squandered to turn Couchsurfing into the next trendy startup venture.

Many community organisations (wikipedia.org for example) which respect their user-base — indeed realise they are their user-base — have resorted to reaching out to their members in search of aid when times got tough, financial or otherwise. Even some newspapers, dammit, score morally higher by asking for donations rather than ransoms.

Despite the recent drama, it’s already clear from Couchsurfing’s Privacy Policy that other money making outlets besides the ones they mention do exist:

“We may engage a third party data provider who may collect web log data from you or place or recognize a unique cookie on your browser” “We may also share aggregated or de-identified information, which cannot reasonably be used to identify you.”

They may not admit directly selling your data. But Couchsurfing allows other companies to collect it in exchange for advertising space, which is paid for. The key words here are “engage”, and “reasonably”, which means if you are a large company and have the means to to re-identify data, then ta-da! — those trackers which monitor clicks and people you interact with, many who are now linked to profiles on Facebook, combine to make a neat little profile for you, and the travel-themed adverts stack up higher than the empty iPhone boxes at the Couchsurfing headquarters, which is now closed from Covid19, by the way.

But that probably didn’t work out for them, which is why they are now allegedly scrapping the advertising plan. Returning instead in true business-means-business style to the community, which after being neglected for years, they have suddenly realised they depend on. And may also realise no longer exists.

But how can it be so bad? As of May 2020, it is one of the top 10,000 websites by Alexa rank, putting it in the top 0.001% of websites in the world — absolutely no mean feat. And certainly not in a position to be losing money. If Couchsurfing couldn’t make it work with that amount of traffic, and with multiple multi-million dollar investments, while simultaneously ignoring its community and deleting its oldest and most valued members, it deserves to die. Nobody asked for all the fancy graphics and apps they made for us. People that are willing to sleep on a stranger’s mattress can live with a few, em, bugs. If community powered websites like Reddit can survive, Couchsurfing could have survived too.

Everyone that has used the site, even until very recently, will be grateful that it existed; its simple empowerment of people allowed everyone to get more of the best thing about it: the people we meet. If anything, it remains as a bleak lesson on the poisonous nature of replacing strength of community with financial capital. Now it’s time to shift away from what is essentially a company run by faceless people whose sole community is those in Silicon Valley; the only question remaining is, where do we go?

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#125
Couchsurfing is like a master class in how to destroy community engagement in your business/project.

So, back before the ubiquity of 2 or 3 social media sites, CouchSurfing was a quirky place to meet travelers and let them crash on your couch. One of the things that made it work was profile reviews and couch requests. The second thing was the community forums.

The profile reviews and couch requests acted as a quality filter. Bad reviews lead to much lower community engagement. An interesting profile and good reviews, combined with community instruction on how to compose a good request, leads to acceptance of couch requests. The system works as long as the community polices itself, teaches its values to new members, and encourages good behavior.

The community forums were a huge part of facilitating all that. Profiles would often include instructions on how to behave, but the forums filled the gaps by adding social pressure to enforce standard conventions. They also ensured there was constant user engagement and content, which we know from modern social media sites is imperative for a vibrant community.

All of that got flushed down the drain when Couchsurfing reorganized and annihilated their old site. All the community engagement fled to private Facebook groups. That caused profile quality to crash, and the result is anti-community behavior, like how the majority of single men on the platform now host only single women, which besides being sketch as hell, just makes it harder to find a reliable host.

After I literally flew across the country just to have lunch with the Couchsurfing team and discuss the community problems I'd collected, I got the impression that they were not going to change. My concerns were mostly considered bug reports, and the problems that drove the community away were never addressed. Years later, it looks like no work has been done at all.

I was grandfathered in as an older user so I never even realized they started charged you to send more than a certain number of couch requests. But why would any new user seriously commit to a community now? It can probably still be a place to meet amazing people, but you can also just meet amazing people anywhere you go in the world, without Couchsurfing.

The saddest part of all of this is that now there won't be an amazing platform to show people how insanely generous humans are all over the world. Hopefully BeWelcome or another site can pick up the mantle and restore the old ways, so we can go back to showing more people the inherent goodness of strangers - when those strangers are tied together via community and purpose.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#126

So I imagine there's a lot of people here that don't know Couchsurfing or what the big deal is. Couchsurfing has been one of the most important things in my life, so I'll do my best to explain why it's so special. The basic idea is you stay at a stranger's place, or you host a stranger at yours - completely for free, no money involved. Everyone does it differently. Some people plan their trip meticulously months in a…

Have there been any cases where something bad has happened to either a host or a guest? (Such are the thoughts that consume my middle aged mind, I think I was more trusting when younger but never to the extent that you are). BTW, I think your attitude is great.

Yes, of course - Couchsurfing has fifteen million members and has been around nearly two decades IIRC.

Nothing has happened to me or anyone I know (or anyone I know knows.) And I don't think anyone should be afraid of things like murder, kidnapping, etc. While pretty much every high profile app/website these days has a big tragedy happen, Couchsurfing only had one - I actually think that's very low for the number of times people have Couchsurfed. (If you're thinking of Airbnb as the safe alternative, it's had far more gruesome and tragic events.)

But the thing to be careful with using Couchsurfing isn't a microscopic chance of murder, it's creepy hosts. There are always hosts that are clearly using Couchsurfing as a dating site. The way around this is just to read profiles and references.

Of course, everyone sets their own comfort level. Maybe a woman would only want to stay with other women; or maybe only with families, or with gay men. Maybe you'll only want to stay with someone if you'll get your own private room (you can filter for only those if you want.) Or only by verified profiles with 20+ references. Then there are red flags - Does a man have only references from women? That's a red flag.

That's the beauty of it: it's a completely choose-your-own-adventure kinda thing. If you want to stay with a family with kids in the mountains you can do that; if you want to join a clearly wild local on their quest to do illegal activities that will leave you with a hell of a story to tell, then that's also possible.

I would encourage anyone to still think about it no matter how old they may be - some of my best hosts got into CS late in life. It's possible to Couchsurf in a "paranoid" manner (for example only staying with families) it just takes a bit more effort and planning :)

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#127
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

relying on the reputation system to filter out bad guests means that new members have no chance to join. hosts will be overwhelmed with requests. many guests will be freeloaders who would be better served with airbnb. for the site to work, the influx of new members needd to be small enough so that the community csn handle it. word of mouth is the only way to make sure that new members can get a reference before their…

Like the poster you're responding to, I haven't used couchsurfing in a few years - left due to life changes, and being annoyed by earlier stages of the commercialization that the article talks about. But, prior to that I semi-regularly hosted and used it in my own travels a couple times, over maybe 8 or 9 years and a few countries. It worked very much as described in that post, and didn't seem to have the problems li…

I want to add my own anecdotal experience to confirm yours - it worked out well, even when I was a novice (& when hosting novices). It was also easy to not be a novice anymore - just host! There was always demand for hosts.

The real problem is the same that has been plaguing the web in general - there seems to be no more room for just doing good stuff while trying to break-even or even making a modest profit. Everything has to be a "startup" with the possibility of making its founders millionaires (or more).

I got on the internet in the early/mid 90s when the web was new & for a few years it was mostly non-commercial and ran by enthusiasts and hobbyists acting according to the hacker ethos of sharing, openness, decentralization & world improvement. You could see these principles for years even behind decidedly commercial sites such as craigslist.

It didn't last for long but that's the kind of ideology couch surfing originally started in & it's sad but unsurprising to see where it ended up in.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#128

Like the article says and as applies to almost all failed startups / products, it can all be traced back to bad management. I've been a heavy CS user for over a decade, I've been to events at their (now defunct I suppose) office in SF, I met their CEO at the time (one of many) and even did a walk around the block chatting strategy with their VP of Product at the time. After building lifelong relationships through the…

It’s also possible that if the premise of your product is being free for broke people, there’s just no path to profitability or even subsistance. You always anger your base, whatever you do. And then your platform becomes irrelevant as it fails to adapt due to... lack of money.

I beg to differ. Travellers need travel insurance. They might need a ho(s)tel if other options aren't there. They could enjoy TransferWise and borderless bank accounts.

You can give away the product and monetize related needs. This is how I did it with my website, where I can still afford to give away all my knowledge. You focus on your core product, but still make affiliate income from pointing them to other things they need.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#129

Didn't it basically turn into a hookup app at some point?

it can be whatever you want it to be

i agree this become more common over the years, bit it's anyway easily avoidable through references or just by checking up sexuality, after all statistics are on your side, if you host person of same gender you are unlikely going into hook up

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trustroots is being discussed as an alternative, but it doesn't have a reference system I logged in just earlier to have a look, and I see that people do have feedback. I'm not sure if there's anything like 'vouching' that CS used to have. > Having developers to code the site and moderate the forum would be expensive if paid by the hour, but there are willing volunteers. I have been to a festival in Australia (the…

> I have been to a festival in Australia (the predecessor to burning man) that is completely volunteer run. It's interesting to be a part of operations and see it work, and fail to some extent, and in meat-space the 'look after each other philosophy' can work when everybody is can watch each other. I'm curious about that (being an Australian and a Burner). Which festival? (if you're OK sharing. My email in my profile…

Surely you've heard of ConFest? Still going strong since the 70s. Started by Jim Cairns (the then ex-deputy to the ex-prime minister Gough Whitlam). The name is a portmanteau of 'conference festival'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConFest

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