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The Death of Couchsurfing?

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11–20 of 321 posts

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#11
post #3

An alternative will rise eventually. Couch surfing is all about experiences, friendships, and not thinking about money. Any person creating the alternative will have to understand and accept that.

BeWelcome is open-source, has been around for a decade already, and has excellent financial transparency. Their fundraising target for this year is 1300€. I've already contacted their developer to ask if I can help create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles. It's heartbreaking to see such a wonderful community be divided like this. There are no "rich" and "poor" countries, only ones wit…

> create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles.

This has been brought up in the past (there have been multiple waves of disgruntled CS members leaving for BW), but it is pretty clear that CS would consider this web scraping that violates their terms of service. CS does not provide any authorized way to export its profiles.

EDIT: Sorry, I'm wrong. I left CS and chose to use only community-driven hospitality-exchange platforms pre-GDPR.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#12
Couchsurfing was fantastic in its early days, then came the era of using websites for just-a-little-bit-too-much-dating, then they went .com and tried to be "cool" with redesigns, eventually drowning the simplicity of their concept a little bit too much. That $25 yearly fee slapped onto everything, with no chance to even connect with previous contacts, is disappointing to say the least. No doubt that the meaning of "couchsurfing" will far outlast the website, especially now.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#13

>If community powered websites like Reddit can survive Reddit is backed by venture capital and shifted heavily to be more advertiser friendly.

I don't know how Hacker News manages to stay so pure, given that it's run by venture capitalists, yet still remains free of ads and open to newcomers. Monetising CS is like demanding a signup fee to join HN: it will drastically change the community.

[deleted]

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#14
post #3

An alternative will rise eventually. Couch surfing is all about experiences, friendships, and not thinking about money. Any person creating the alternative will have to understand and accept that.

BeWelcome is open-source, has been around for a decade already, and has excellent financial transparency. Their fundraising target for this year is 1300€. I've already contacted their developer to ask if I can help create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles. It's heartbreaking to see such a wonderful community be divided like this. There are no "rich" and "poor" countries, only ones wit…

I'll second that. Theft seems to happen as a matter of course in hostels, with just about everyone I know who uses them regularly having an experience. I don't hear too many bad CS stories except the friend of a friend who had to stay with a nudist (i.e. urban myth. The nudists on CS seem to be very open about it.)

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BeWelcome is open-source, has been around for a decade already, and has excellent financial transparency. Their fundraising target for this year is 1300€. I've already contacted their developer to ask if I can help create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles. It's heartbreaking to see such a wonderful community be divided like this. There are no "rich" and "poor" countries, only ones wit…

> create a data import tool so people can easily transfer their C$ profiles. This has been brought up in the past (there have been multiple waves of disgruntled CS members leaving for BW), but it is pretty clear that CS would consider this web scraping that violates their terms of service. CS does not provide any authorized way to export its profiles. EDIT: Sorry, I'm wrong. I left CS and chose to use only community-…

Sounds like that runs afoul of GDPR.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#17
Like the article says and as applies to almost all failed startups / products, it can all be traced back to bad management.

I've been a heavy CS user for over a decade, I've been to events at their (now defunct I suppose) office in SF, I met their CEO at the time (one of many) and even did a walk around the block chatting strategy with their VP of Product at the time.

After building lifelong relationships through the platform, and comparing my experience as a user with management's side of the story, it was clear to me that they had very little understanding of their userbase.

Couchsurfers are broke. By definition. Meeting people is a huge value add, and the longer you stay on the platform, the more you gravitate toward the "community spirit" and less "saving money" side of things. But you are kidding yourself if you think that first time CS users are on the platform for any other reason than squeezing a few more days out of a thin backpacking budget.

Not only are they broke, but even the community often has an anti-money ethos. Just look at the outrage (as the article points out) when they switched to a B corporation. And it makes sense -- taking an inherently capitalist product (lodging) and building a community to make it free creates a very specific narrative.

Therefore, the expectation that CS users, especially first-time, will pay even a dollar on the service is DOA. They need to make money (exactly how much is up for debate), but this isn't the way to do it.

But that doesn't mean there aren't any other choices! CS Event sponsorships, cross-product integration (language learning, travel deals FFS), other corporate sponsorships, a more Airbnb-like private experience (maybe the community would hate that too, who knows), partnerships with local tourism authorities, discounted tour / event packages... None of these were even close to tried.

I'm not at all advocating that Couchsurfing should have become Tripadvisor, but to barely even consider a few alternatives to nickel and diming a bunch of broke backpackers just shows that CS was on its way out long before COVID-19...

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#18

>If community powered websites like Reddit can survive Reddit is backed by venture capital and shifted heavily to be more advertiser friendly.

I don't know how Hacker News manages to stay so pure, given that it's run by venture capitalists, yet still remains free of ads and open to newcomers. Monetising CS is like demanding a signup fee to join HN: it will drastically change the community.

Hacker News is smaller than most major subreddits in terms of usage. 400 upvotes is considered a lot here. The site is extremely simple and something that could be replicated in a couple of days at most by most engineers. It doesn't process money or really require a lot of content moderation either.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#19
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you ever used CS before and don’t understand it regardless of the current situation (which will resolve eventually) COVID surely affected all hospitality, but money isn’t relevant to CS anyway.

I’ve never used couchsurfing. Can you elaborate a few more details for outsiders like myself who perhaps can’t read between the lines you’re drawing on the topic? It doesn’t seem that far disconnected from reality to posit that COVID has had some affect on this?

CS inititally grew through communities like hitchhikers, bicycle travelers, Rainbow Gathering hippies and other alternative demographics. For people driven by wanderlust and keen for a sense of community with other sympathetic people, government-enforced COVID travel restrictions may compel them to stay put for a while, but the virus itself won't put them off traveling and hosting for long. No one wants to give up on an entire lifestyle and peer group, and they are used to budgeting on the basis of spending relatively little on accommodation when they are on the road.

Plus, hitchhikers and cycle-tourers are used to thinking about statistics, because their travel habits involve some measure of risk, and so, as horrific as some anecdotal accounts of COVID are, they are unlikely to fear the virus so much.

Re: The Death of Couchsurfing?

#20
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you ever used CS before and don’t understand it regardless of the current situation (which will resolve eventually) COVID surely affected all hospitality, but money isn’t relevant to CS anyway.

I’ve never used couchsurfing. Can you elaborate a few more details for outsiders like myself who perhaps can’t read between the lines you’re drawing on the topic? It doesn’t seem that far disconnected from reality to posit that COVID has had some affect on this?

CS started because someone messaged a load of university students so he could stay on their dorm room floor. I discovered it with a dumpster-diving friend in UCSB in 2009.

It stays legal by involving no money. (Airbnb's subletting issues do not affect CS). Hosts let people stay in their house: whether a couch, sleeping bag, or spare room. Guests message hosts in advance, asking whether they can stay. Reply rates vary. It stays safe by a reference system. My girlfriend, parents, and everybody on the Internet knows exactly where I was sleeping each night.

CS built a large community through word-of-mouth, and was non-profit until 2011. Then the admins decided to make it a B Corporation, and promised not to charge. BeWelcome was founded at that time.

I stayed, and I'm glad I did, because I joined weekly meetups in Amsterdam, Kaohsiung, Taipei, Tainan, and Auckland, and made many great friends that way.

If this were about COVID, a temporary fundraiser to help the admins get through this tough time is reasonable. A monthly fee is not. I can't do subscriptions. My visa will expire in 6 months, and then I'll need to leave - no more income, no more bank account, different SIM card. A friend who knows some people in HQ said that this had been planned for a while. Doing it now, while all the meetups are temporarily suspended, is cruel and foolish. Not consulting the membership is also unacceptable.

I wish that internal reform will be possible, and the admins will change their mind. However, I worry that it may not happen, and that's why I think we should start exporting our data and creating new profiles on BeWelcome.

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