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The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

whichcar.com.au

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Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#91
post #13

It still amazes me that the US, with all its red light cameras, doesn't adopt the European speed cameras that create a lot of tickets (at significant fines) for relatively minor speeding infractions. Top Gear did a test years ago to see just how fast you would need to go to defeat a speed camera, and it was well beyond what the Cannonballers would be running. You just can't fool a high speed camera easily. Of course,…

When red light cams were introduced, they sucked, did a lot of false positives for things like doing a 1mph rolling stop for a right turn at a dead intersection, etc.

If you haven't seen the reluctance/defiance of American culture with the coronavirus pandemic, well... for better and worse, we don't like being surveilled by the government. Or at least, we like them to do us the honor of masking it or pretending not to.

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#92
post #54

For anyone who is trying to understand what the Cannonball Run is all about and resorts to some of the movies inspired by it, the reference movie is "The Gumball Rally". The actual "Cannonball Run" movies with a laundry list of "stars" were, frankly, not so great.

What? Any movie with Dom DeLuise in it is a great movie!

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#93

So it's sort of like a contest to see who can be the biggest asshole then?

I'd say acting in utter disregard to human life is a bit worse than merely being an asshole. I'm pretty okay with life imprisonment for these guys.

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#94
post #66
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Static speed limits that apply to all drivers identically are a joke. Because not all drivers are identically skilled. So either you recognize the absurdity inherent in our speed laws, or you think the system is reasonable. The Cannonball Run isn't for the latter.

Why would different skill levels imply there shouldn’t be a ‘static’ speed limit? I’m not seeing the connecting logic. What is the alternative, and how do you propose to enforce a dynamic speed limit that adapts to the drivers’ skill level? Who determines skill level, and how do you determine skill level, and why would we want a public system where people are near the limits of their skill level? Also curious - are y…

As to an alternative, we've come a long way technologically since 1974. If we wanted to, RF enabling cars to be remotely interrogated, and encoding driver qualifications is well within our reach.

As to skill level, the current system has a cursory driver's test, coupled with (in some states) minimal re-qualification criteria. This means that an 18 year old new driver, a 40 year old experienced driver, and an 80 year old with barely passable eyesight are effectively lumped into the same bucket. To me, that feels like safety theater. And as with any theater, leads to widespread law breaking. In my opinion, any law which is commonly ignored is a bad thing and should be reworked to be more enforceable / in line with expectations.

As to accidents and fatalities normalized per skill level, we have general motor vehicle fatality statistics [1] (specifically note fatalities per million VMT pre-1995 and post-1995, when the federal speed maximums were substantially relaxed [2]). Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any comprehensive driver skill level test, with sufficient sample size, on which to draw statistics.

We can say that, per the 2018 NHTSA report [3], alcohol impairment was involved in 29% of overall fatalities. We can also say that ~50% of fatalities were unrestrained by safety devices (given ~90% documentation of restraint use at time of accident). They also note that "distraction-affected crashes" comprised 7.8% of total fatalities. Which is to say it's tenuous to hold skill as proxy for responsibility, but there are some very large percentages of fatalities exacerbated by non-speed-related irresponsible driving behavior.

I feel like race drivers would be a poor comparison, due to limited sample size and confounding effects (e.g. leading / high performance drivers more likely to take risks and push limits).

(1) absolutely has merit. (2) is debatable, but I'll agree also has merit. (3) seems like my real bone of contention with the current system.

It's naively "fair," in that it treats everyone and all vehicles identically. It's also incredibly sub-optimal, given the vast variance in drivers and vehicles.

If I had my druthers, I'd mandate all cars / drivers support remote interrogation (license class, if you don't want to open the privacy can of identity), then have a graduated series of license tests between standard (C) and commercial (CDL).

Then drastically increase speeding fines & automated fining, if you're caught speeding without an appropriate license qualification.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_Sta...

[3] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#95
post #55
post #13

It still amazes me that the US, with all its red light cameras, doesn't adopt the European speed cameras that create a lot of tickets (at significant fines) for relatively minor speeding infractions. Top Gear did a test years ago to see just how fast you would need to go to defeat a speed camera, and it was well beyond what the Cannonballers would be running. You just can't fool a high speed camera easily. Of course,…

Americans tend to vandalize speed cameras. As long as repairing/replacing the cameras costs more than the revenue they generate from tickets, they’re not worth deploying.

Same happens in France and they are still around :)

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#96

These new records are likely to be unbeatable once traffic returns to normal. I wonder whether that'll cause the demise of the Cannonball Run? That said, in computer speed runs, it's generally said that once someone says a run is unbeatable, it'll be beaten...

There'll probably be a "second wave" of COVID-19, don't worry.

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#97
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would bet that most traffic on I-90 in South Dakota is at or over 90mph given the speed limit is now 80mph. Heck, North Dakota, not exactly a bastion of enforcement, decided against going higher specifically because of South Dakota. Idaho, Wyoming and Utah have 80mph limits and Texas has road at 85mph. A lot of plain states are not hyper about speed limits. 120mph is going to get you in trouble, badly, but 90 might…

I drove on that 80 MPH stretch of I-80 between the Utah/Nevada border, and even the big rigs were going at least 5 over. I honestly think that as long as you're not going 10 over, the police are just there to make sure that if you crash somebody is there to help.

Or if you run out of gas or have to pullover for engine problems.

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#98
post #87
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Static speed limits that apply to all drivers identically are a joke. Because not all drivers are identically skilled. So either you recognize the absurdity inherent in our speed laws, or you think the system is reasonable. The Cannonball Run isn't for the latter.

Humans have in incredible talent for self-deception. Static speed limits are not a joke if you accept that our understanding of physics is real and have a basic understanding of how increasing speed increases energy at impact in a non-linear way. You can be the best driver in the world (and you are almost certainly not), but someone blowing through a red light will still be unavoidable at times.

Another issue are very large animals like moose. I hear this can be a problem in Montana especially.

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#99
post #94
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would different skill levels imply there shouldn’t be a ‘static’ speed limit? I’m not seeing the connecting logic. What is the alternative, and how do you propose to enforce a dynamic speed limit that adapts to the drivers’ skill level? Who determines skill level, and how do you determine skill level, and why would we want a public system where people are near the limits of their skill level? Also curious - are y…

As to an alternative, we've come a long way technologically since 1974. If we wanted to, RF enabling cars to be remotely interrogated, and encoding driver qualifications is well within our reach. As to skill level, the current system has a cursory driver's test, coupled with (in some states) minimal re-qualification criteria. This means that an 18 year old new driver, a 40 year old experienced driver, and an 80 year…

Also within our reach is automated photographic enforcement. That would be much easier and way more realistic to implement than somehow trying to manage different speed classes based on skill or whatever.

I still just don’t see a real problem with a static speed limit, or why something graduated by skill is called for and what it would help.

Having fines graduated by ‘skill’ would just be more of a declaration that it’s okay to break the law and speed if you’re a ‘better’ driver, whatever that means. It doesn’t make that much sense to me, the better drivers are already the ones choosing not to speed. Personally, I’d rather have more enforcement so that people just didn’t speed. I honestly hope that self-driving cars eliminate aggressive driving from our roads and let people relax while they travel. Speeds are already too high in a lot of places, and people have unrealistic expectations while they drive.

The last thing I want is some clowns claiming to be better drivers expecting to be allowed to drive 100mph through traffic. The very desire to driver faster that current speed limits is solid evidence in my book of a lack of driving wisdom, which I would call a lack of skill. The choices we make to avoid bad situations are more important than our reaction times or ability to recover from them. (Just like coding!)

I don’t know if that’s what you’re suggesting, because you didn’t make it clear, but that seems to be your implication. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Your suggestion is sounding a little to me like it could be a way for richer people to pay for more licensing to get traffic advantages. Speeding tickets already favor wealthy people and hurt poorer people disproportionately. The licenses we currently have don’t measure skill, they establish only the minimum standards needed for driving a motorcycle or car or 18 wheeler, no licensing in our system is capable of distinguishing the skills of different drivers.

It’s not really the case that the law is lumping everyone into the same bucket based on skill, I think that’s a misinterpretation, a specious framing but not what the law intended nor what it communicates. The speed limit is a declaration of what the safe speed of a given road and today’s vehicles are - again, because physics.

Speed limits are affected by popular opinion, and in some places, like in the western US where the speed limits have been hiked up to 80 mph, or even 85 in Texas, these limits have been raised in some locales by law makers in spite of the Highway Patrol’s objections and evidence that accidents and fatality rates are higher with the raised limits.

> It’s also incredibly sub-optimal, given that vast variance in drivers and vehicles.

So by what metric is it sub-optimal? How do you arrive at the conclusion that it’s “incredibly” sub-optimal? What does optimal mean, and what are you suggesting? I don’t get it yet. Are you saying more skilled drivers should be allowed to driver faster than other people, or just suggesting that fines should be lower? Who, exactly, is being harmed by speed limits, what is the damage being done, and what is the alternative? There are statistics showing increased rates of death in higher speed limit areas, so you need to have a pretty convincing argument that a thousand people being stuck at 70mph are being hurt more than someone getting killed.

I just don’t see it being realistic for some people to be allowed to drive much faster than others in traffic. This would add extra tension to already tense heavy traffic commutes, how does it solve anything? I suspect the unintended consequence of increasing the speed differential would be more road rage and more road fatalities.

Re: The Cannonball Run record has been broken seven times in five weeks

#100
post #94
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would different skill levels imply there shouldn’t be a ‘static’ speed limit? I’m not seeing the connecting logic. What is the alternative, and how do you propose to enforce a dynamic speed limit that adapts to the drivers’ skill level? Who determines skill level, and how do you determine skill level, and why would we want a public system where people are near the limits of their skill level? Also curious - are y…

As to an alternative, we've come a long way technologically since 1974. If we wanted to, RF enabling cars to be remotely interrogated, and encoding driver qualifications is well within our reach. As to skill level, the current system has a cursory driver's test, coupled with (in some states) minimal re-qualification criteria. This means that an 18 year old new driver, a 40 year old experienced driver, and an 80 year…

> RF enabling cars to be remotely interrogated, and encoding driver qualifications is well within our reach.

Half the country wants a government so small it can be drowned in a bathtub or be unable to respond competently to a public health crisis. You think we should institute elite certification so that some people can be allowed to drive fast on public roads...

Yeah, I agree safety requirements should be more stringent, but I’m not sure I support that as a means to allow more speed.

As a motorcyclist, when I see cars driving aggressively and at high speeds, I think to myself, “there is a person who is too safe...”

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