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An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

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Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#51

Post by bingerman »

gamblor956 wrote: post #29
CloudHelix wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Farmers have always been at the brink of technological progress. You would think we would see more automation and fewer cows being milked by hand were this true.

The primary method of milking cows in the US has been by machine for decades... And most farms in the US are highly automated: automated sprinklers, automated tractors, automated planters, automated harvesters (of crops that are amenable to machine harvesting). It's simply that there are a lot of food crops that are trivial for humans to harvest by hand that would require very expensive machinery and technology to ac…

This. The supply of cheap human labor tends to make technological progress slower.

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#52

Post by luckylion »

PeterisP wrote: post #42
luckylion wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he needs land to farm on, or he stops being a farmer and has to shut down his business. He will now pay e.g. $1000. Tillable will offer $1100 upfront to the land owner and then "offer" it to the farmer for the low price of $1200. Since he can't just farm on some piece of land 500 miles away, he can either pay the new price, or stop farming. Tillable offers no significant service here. It's not that there's a…

If the farmer is willing to accept a $1200 price, then what prevents the land owner from charging $1200 right now? All the factors you list which push the price up apply just as well for the current owner-renter negotiations. The scenario you describe is possible only if there is a lot of land that's severely mispriced / underpriced - in which case the price should and would get corrected, and after that the arbitrag…

"Willingness" vs "No other choice but shut down". It's similar to how you're "willing" to "accept" increased taxes. You don't have to, of course, you can leave the country, but I wouldn't consider that willing acceptance.

As TeMPOral mentioned in a sibling comment, mostly their long-standing relationship, and his non-predatory business model. Right now, he's a land owner. If he uses Tillable, he's a property investor.

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#53

Post by aguyfromnb »

lucb1e wrote: post #44
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #16

There is actually more to this than is visible on the surface. And I can’t talk about some of it. But here it is: 1. Climate Corp was part of Monsanto before it became Bayer. It was acquired by Monsanto. 2. John Deere wanted to buy Climate as well as Monsanto but that was struck down by US courts and Bayer bought Monsanto. 3. What was Climate Corp doing before? They had something called Field View where they charged…

With formatting: """ 1. Climate Corp was part of Monsanto before it became Bayer. It was acquired by Monsanto. 2. John Deere wanted to buy Climate as well as Monsanto but that was struck down by US courts and Bayer bought Monsanto. 3. What was Climate Corp doing before? They had something called Field View where they charged farmers to collect and collate data. 4. All precision Ag, Ag robotics and farm data collectio…

>There won’t be any more farmers in the future but only farming corporations.

Is this any different than, "pretty soon there won't be any local movie rental places (or retail places), it'll just be content delivery corporations"?

I do share concerns about this kind of movement, and think it needs to be done judiciously, in every industry. However, I do not agree that just because you're "small" or "independent" you are inherently better or care more. There are pros and cons. People are people and don't become "evil" by working for larger firms.

Silicon Valley seems to be very suspicious of corporate consolidation in every industry, but turns a blind eye as Facebook/Google/Amazon do it on a scale rarely ever seen.

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#54

Post by econcon »

In India big farmers rent their land to big corporations and sit back relax and collect rent dollars.

Many have become millionaire overnight by doing this.

Government started taxing farmers for this reason. Untill recently, all farm income was tax free.

The case in point being that MNCs are producing the kind of output, no farmer here ever could dream of producing.

And the con? All they need is a huge piece of land.

Very little labor if any is used in this.

Most small farms are not profitable as overhead of bringing machine or labor to small farm is just too high.

I know a few farmers who sold their few hectares land in Punjab and brought several thousands of hectare land in Australia.

So you can how inflated the price of farm land is in India.

Now after making enough money in Australia, they are buying back their ancestral lands and this is sending the price of farm land in Punjab through the roof.

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#55

Post by jessaustin »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #35
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #16

There is actually more to this than is visible on the surface. And I can’t talk about some of it. But here it is: 1. Climate Corp was part of Monsanto before it became Bayer. It was acquired by Monsanto. 2. John Deere wanted to buy Climate as well as Monsanto but that was struck down by US courts and Bayer bought Monsanto. 3. What was Climate Corp doing before? They had something called Field View where they charged…

Wow thanks for this info. What a shitty situation. Venture capitalists buying land to rent it back to farmers seems like the exact opposite of the kind of innovation we need. I work for a small farming automation company. I’m designing a solar powered weeding robot. when you say “small scale” farming what do you mean? Its still early for us but it feels like we need to target farms that are hundreds or thousands of a…

How could a robot keep more than a couple of acres weeded? Small amounts of acreage in real food would be more valuable to humans than vast tracts of frankenfood like Monsanto soybeans. There are already "at-scale" solutions for that crap: just spray it (and everything downwind!) with tons of noxious chemicals.

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#56

Post by m463 »

redis_mlc wrote: post #45
kitotik wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the extremely insightful context. With so much first-hand knowledge of this situation, I’m having a hard time processing how you don’t have an opinion on it. It seems that this is exceedingly detrimental to the well being of literally everyone and everything involved except for those that profit from it.

A similar story is unfolding in mostly small-time US aviation mfg. Chinese companies have bought around 20 makers, like Mooney and Cirrus, in the past decade. > With so much first-hand knowledge of this situation, I’m having a hard time processing how you don’t have an opinion on it. Similarly, I don't have an opinion since the US regulators have decided to do nothing, and private capital is scarce in that sector - i…

That reminds me of this (vagueyly related) article on unions and airlines:

https://philip.greenspun.com/flying/unions-and-airlines

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#57

Post by jessaustin »

ISL wrote: post #24
onionisafruit wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody who manages some family land, I wholeheartedly agree. Going back to 1830, there are only three other families we have trusted to lease our land. Some generations we lease their land. Other generations they lease ours. I’ve seen a cousin’s land destroyed for years by outside farmers. I know I could make some good money by leasing to an outsider for a few seasons, but they will use and abandon it, and it wi…

One could imagine sufficient contracts to preserve the land's value/health, but they would be difficult to write and add friction. A lot of conservation/preservation is easier if you know you're going to be leasing it for years and the landlord is your neighbor.

No contract enforces anything against a corporation who is willing to waste your time in court. They have employees who waste the time of poor farmers in court every day. They use what they learn in court to write progressively more evil contracts. When is the last time any of these farmers hired a lawyer so skilled at contract law? Is such a lawyer available in their state? In any neighboring state?

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#58

Post by wffurr »

aguyfromnb wrote: post #53
lucb1e wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With formatting: """ 1. Climate Corp was part of Monsanto before it became Bayer. It was acquired by Monsanto. 2. John Deere wanted to buy Climate as well as Monsanto but that was struck down by US courts and Bayer bought Monsanto. 3. What was Climate Corp doing before? They had something called Field View where they charged farmers to collect and collate data. 4. All precision Ag, Ag robotics and farm data collectio…

> There won’t be any more farmers in the future but only farming corporations. Is this any different than, "pretty soon there won't be any local movie rental places (or retail places), it'll just be content delivery corporations"? I do share concerns about this kind of movement, and think it needs to be done judiciously, in every industry. However, I do not agree that just because you're "small" or "independent" you…

There's a fundamental difference between food and movies. Food is a basic necessity and quality food is essential to health. Commodity crops aren't quality food.

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#59

Post by jefftk »

rmason wrote: post #40

Long term the Tillable idea won't fly. I worked with farmers as a fertilizer company agronomist for twenty years. If I understand it correctly Tillable is trying to insert themselves in the middle, acquire the right to sublease large amounts of land and mark it up. Say you own a farm and lease it out. The family you lease your land to might be a neighbor. In the winter they might plow your driveway gratis. They add f…

It sounds to me like you're making two points:

1. Tenant farmers often pay their landlord partially in kind, with things like driveway plowing. Outsider tenants wouldn't do this.

2. The tenant farmer has a wide range of options for how well to take care of the land, which affects its long-term value. Outsider tenants would optimize to maximize production during their lease at minimum cost, hurting long-term value.

I don't think (1) is a major issue: landlords can consider the in-kind benefits they get just as well as cash compensation. But (2) seems very serious to me. Market rates for land are much lower than they would be without the issue that the landlord needs to trust the tenant to be a good long-term steward. Whether Tillable can succeed long-term depends on whether they can solve this.

Re: An Airbnb for farmland hits a snag, as farmers raise data privacy concerns

#60

Post by gdhbcc »

PeterisP wrote: post #42
luckylion wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he needs land to farm on, or he stops being a farmer and has to shut down his business. He will now pay e.g. $1000. Tillable will offer $1100 upfront to the land owner and then "offer" it to the farmer for the low price of $1200. Since he can't just farm on some piece of land 500 miles away, he can either pay the new price, or stop farming. Tillable offers no significant service here. It's not that there's a…

If the farmer is willing to accept a $1200 price, then what prevents the land owner from charging $1200 right now? All the factors you list which push the price up apply just as well for the current owner-renter negotiations. The scenario you describe is possible only if there is a lot of land that's severely mispriced / underpriced - in which case the price should and would get corrected, and after that the arbitrag…

Presumably tillable will make the same dela to every landowner in the area, reducing the competition between landowner and therefore enabling the increase in prices.

In essence, tillable becomes the only landowner

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