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Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

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Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prevalence indicates the customers appreciate their presence Focusing solely on consumers ignores negative externalities. There are many situations in which cost benefits from such externalities (slavery, pollution, human rights abuses, animal mistreatment) can lead to a favorable marketplace position vs competitors who do not exploit such externalities. What is more, many of these exploits (slavery, pollution, hum…

I don't think the poster used legality as the moral compass, rather, consumer choice was the moral compass. If consumers lack the moral conciousness on their day to day transactions, then how can we expect them to make the right moral choices when they vote?

That assumes consumers actually have a choice to make in the situation. For example let's say you disagreed with how Comcast throttles the internet or behaves in monopolistic behavior. Your only option to make the moral choice is to simply not have internet at all in certain regions.

A more topical one might be if you disagree with a company using sweatshop labor. Figuring out which companies engage in sweatshop labor and avoiding them is a remarkably difficult task, not in the least because companies do whatever they can in order to hide said actions. And even if you do manage to create a list of good/bad companies, there's no guarantee that you can purchase solely from the good companies without having to go through some other morally dubious medium such as Amazon.

The idea of shopping based on your moral conscious might've worked 50 years ago when the supply chain was far smaller, but nowadays it's so complex as to be almost unfathomable for one user to shop their moral compass without touching at least one thing they disagree with.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#232
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's helpful to separate out pricing from product when talking about morality in business. What a product should cost depends on how much people are willing to pay for it. Whether a product should be allowed to exist depends on whether it's morally acceptable. The issue with slaves, and products that pollute the environment or mistreat living things isn't how much they cost - it's that they exist at all.

> I think it's helpful to separate out pricing from product when talking about morality in business. I don't think the two are so easily separable. If you take for example, "a dozen eggs", most people would consider that an acceptable product. But if you said "a dozen eggs for ten cents", for those to be legitimate eggs, they must be stolen. If you could somehow inspect them and guarantee they were legitimate, I am s…

I'd argue that blaming the buyer is not appropriate though - the problem is the lack of regulation (preventing theft in this case) so you can blame the thieves and/or the police/government, but you can't expect the buyer (or anyone) to determine exactly what price is too good to be true. If you could, then we wouldn't need to have a market pricing system in the first place.

I'm reminded of how people would express outrage over products made in a low wage country being defective or toxic, and sometimes a response would be "well, people who demand ultra-cheap products deserve what they get". That's a denial of the fraudulent aspect of such a transaction, and the inability of the consumer to solve it.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are saying the exact opposite. They don't like assigning a moral judgement either way to a business that isn't hurting anyone. You were replying as if they had said that instead of something being bad, it was good. That is not the same thing. Treating something as neutral is not the same as saying something is an opposite.

Keyword "don't like". Moral judgement also.

No, that's ridiculous. Saying you don't like assigning moral judgements to companies is essentially saying you think they should be looked at as neutral.

If someone says they don't like cauliflower, that isn't a moral judgment. You are not understanding what is being said or what it implies.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#234
post #54

> why should I'm not a huge fan of moralistic takes on business. If you're selling something dangerous then that's wrong, but it's very easy to be blinkered from a high position. If people want to buy food in a certain way I can't really blame them - arguably the same with Uber and taxis, Uber has disrupted an industry which was fairly uncompetitive and politically charged (Their prevalence indicates the customers ap…

> prevalence indicates the customers appreciate their presence Focusing solely on consumers ignores negative externalities. There are many situations in which cost benefits from such externalities (slavery, pollution, human rights abuses, animal mistreatment) can lead to a favorable marketplace position vs competitors who do not exploit such externalities. What is more, many of these exploits (slavery, pollution, hum…

> slavery, pollution

right, so if you get pizza delivery, you're probably Hitler running Deep Horizon. What a nice way to argue your point.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#235
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best outcome for whom? I trust people to spend their own money in the way that they want rather than some top down dictated manner. I don't like the societal purpose questioning because people forget that not everyone has a lot of money to spend - the trade-off will almost definitely be between "ethics" and the cost to the person on the street. I don't buy my books from Amazon because I love Amazon, I do it because i…

I never ever said anything about top-down choice depriving solutions. That is a straw-man you have dragged into this conversation. This is not a debate about the merits of capitalism vs. socialism (or communism). This is simply saying that some free-market solutions lead to worse outcomes for society. My hoped-for solution was a co-op model app which is completely in the free market realm. You went ahead and made thi…

> worse outcomes for society

as determined by who?

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#236
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The profit in a competitive market is usually ~5%. Double prices while selling out and profit increases by 21x if not vastly more which is a huge incentive. To the point where doubling the profit again is unlikely result in meaningfully increased production. PS: And yea it’s more complex than that, you can generally skip out in advertising but may be paying significant overtime etc. But that’s rarely particularly imp…

How is that not particularly important? In a shortage scenario, you don’t just crank up a dial to make the factory output more. You might need additional facilities, new factories, new workers, etc at the same time others are trying to secure resources too. People in short supply also don’t just work additional hours for double pay. An hour of my leisure time is worth far more than double.

Though I believe you would not work overtime for double time, I also believe that an enormous number of people would do so.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of the examples given can easily apply to food delivery, namely pollution and human rights abuses.

The argument recommends take out which also involves driving somewhere, and given that deliverers many times deliver to more than one household this is an argument for delivery over take out. Also it's not significant, even with a carbon tax to eliminate this externality that would be at most a dime or quarter of pollution. And human rights abuse? I had a job delivering, and it was honestly one of my favorite jobs. T…

"It can't possibly be happening because it never happened to me" is a pretty weak argument.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand the difference between profiting and profiteering. Nobody is claiming companies should sell toilet paper at cost, but they are saying toilet paper shouldn't get 5x more expensive.

5x more expensive might actually be the correct price. Remember that you cannot compare a price for a good manufactured overseas with lack labor laws vs something manufactured in the US with laws, insurance, regulations, etc. Further, just as the US abandoned domestically made masks after the H1N1 epidemic, and went back to inexpensive overseas versions -- they may do it again with PPE. So you also need to cover the…

> 5x more expensive might actually be the correct price. Remember that you cannot compare a price for a good manufactured overseas with lack labor laws vs something manufactured in the US with laws, insurance, regulations, etc.

Perhaps so, but if that were the case, the producer wouldn't be fairly accused of profiteering. Usually these accusations arise when the production or acquisition cost for the seller is low and the sale price is very high.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#239

> While neither Uber nor Grubhub turns a profit delivering food, they are nonetheless venture-backed and raking in mountains of cash The author acknowledges that the delivery services are losing money. And yet, the author is essentially saying that the apps should lose even more money because someone else is willing to fund the apps.

It's a very weird position. Even if I were taking in a trillion in cash, if my expenses are a trillion+1, no would call me a success for long.

That would entirely depend on your payment terms.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#240
post #54

> why should I'm not a huge fan of moralistic takes on business. If you're selling something dangerous then that's wrong, but it's very easy to be blinkered from a high position. If people want to buy food in a certain way I can't really blame them - arguably the same with Uber and taxis, Uber has disrupted an industry which was fairly uncompetitive and politically charged (Their prevalence indicates the customers ap…

The word "should" is a red flag.
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