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Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

latimes.com

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Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#81

Post by blancNoir »

crazygringo wrote: post #74

This article is misguided, based on a false premise. Food delivery apps are not thriving, if thriving means making big profits. GrubHub's stock price isn't much different from where it was 5 years ago. UberEats isn't expected to turn a profit for another five years as they continue to lose money on every order. There are no monopolies here taking advantage of restauranteurs. There's an entire ecosystem of food delive…

from the article

"While neither Uber nor Grubhub turns a profit delivering food, they are nonetheless venture-backed and raking in mountains of cash: Grubhub reported revenue of $362.98 million during the first quarter this year, a year-over-year increase of more than 12%. Uber Eats’ revenue surged 53% from the same quarter a year ago, to $819 million.

Restaurants, meanwhile, are facing utter devastation. The restaurant industry lost 5.5 million jobs nationwide in April, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In L.A., the overall unemployment rate now stands at 24%, an increase from 4.7% in February."

edit: additional context from article

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#82

Post by krapp »

torstenvl wrote: post #64
krapp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People appear to be forgetting how horrible food delivery was pre-UberEats/DoorDash et al. It was horrible and the food was always cold. No one's forgotten anything, that's just simply not true. I've never used UberEats or DoorDash, and I've had food delivered plenty of times over the years, and never had a problem. I assume this is the same sort of propaganda Uber fans use when they claim taxi service was universal…

Taxi service was absolutely terrible before Uber. You couldn't order a taxi from an app, there were never enough of them, you couldn't figure out what the price was before ordering so there was no direct competition, many localities had an anticompetitive licensing scheme on top of that, and a not insignificant number of drivers would take you the long way during off-peak hours IOT inflate the price.

>You couldn't order a taxi from an app

Never needed to, I could just call them on the phone.

>you couldn't figure out what the price was before ordering so there was no direct competition

Sure I could, I would just ask them how much to get from point A to B. The price I was quoted was always accurate.

>many localities had an anticompetitive licensing scheme on top of that

Has no effect whatsoever on me as a customer.

>and a not insignificant number of drivers would take you the long way during off-peak hours IOT inflate the price

I've literally never had that happen.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#83

Post by vinay427 »

JCharante wrote: post #41

The industry in the US is ridiculous. In a different country my friends run a newish (7 months?) cafe where they aren't on any apps. Instead you can send them a facebook message or call, and they will dispatch a shipper to you. They will then send one of their baristas who aren't busy, or if necessary they've built up a list of delivery drivers who like to hangout near their restaurant, they "sell" the food to the sh…

This is definitely not limited to the US, for what it's worth. The type of informal arrangement you describe seems rather undesirable if we're trying to enforce safety and labor regulations, tax collection, etc. I'm sure there are some exceptions but where I live as well as in other western European countries in which I've looked into food delivery, there were companies that operate an app-based platform, similar to in the US.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#84

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

Restaurants without their own delivery service would have no business at all if it weren't for delivery services. I see no ethical issue here.

A formerly prestigious newspaper is arguing against a new business benefitting in a strained supply chain. It's a weak attempt to gain status.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#85

Post by quotemstr »

haltingproblem wrote: post #6

They thrive because people are lazy - both restaurant and their customers. Restaurants can make a concerted effort to ask regular clients to order from their own websites/apps but rarely do even when they can make an extra 10-15% after giving the customers 10% off. Customers are lazy because inspite of all the talk of supporting local, they are too hooked on click-click-click and ordered. The delivery apps have hundr…

One man's "laz[iness]" is another man's efficiency. Think of all the other forms of laziness we have: we don't need to do dishes by hand; the printing press saves us having to scribble letters by hand; we have machines wash our clothes; cars spare our feet and our time; hydraulic excavators let us avoid shoveling dirt with our hands; and aircraft let us save the weeks we'd otherwise waste aboard ships and in rail cars. Is using any of these things some kind of moral failing? Of course not, and neither is using a food delivery service.

People get a lot of value out of delivery apps. If they didn't, they wouldn't use them. You're asking people to forego something valuable on your say-so. How can that be justified?

Every technological innovation is opposed by those used to the old ways or who are financially interested in the perpetuation of inefficiencies from which they benefit. This opposition frequently takes on a moral character, as it has in your comment --- if you use the new thing, you're a bad person making an unethical choice. Well, I reject that.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#86

Post by MattGaiser »

dathinab wrote: post #65

Just a random idea: Maybe some people could setup a non-profit platform to connect delivery driver and restaurants and is focused on transparency? Operating such a platform shouldn't be to expensive. The major cost (I guess) lies in advertisement and paying people to actually do the delivery. I believe customer being able to see how much of the price goes to the platform, the delivery driver and the restaurant (maybe…

> paying people to actually do the delivery.

I have both DoorDash and the Dasher app. I've seen the order I might regularly pay a $2.99 fee for (I don't as I have DashPass) be offered to drivers for $13 with a $4 tip. This was on a $30 order for two.

How you pay for delivery is a major issue.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#87

Post by torstenvl »

krapp wrote: post #82
torstenvl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxi service was absolutely terrible before Uber. You couldn't order a taxi from an app, there were never enough of them, you couldn't figure out what the price was before ordering so there was no direct competition, many localities had an anticompetitive licensing scheme on top of that, and a not insignificant number of drivers would take you the long way during off-peak hours IOT inflate the price.

>You couldn't order a taxi from an app Never needed to, I could just call them on the phone. >you couldn't figure out what the price was before ordering so there was no direct competition Sure I could, I would just ask them how much to get from point A to B. The price I was quoted was always accurate. >many localities had an anticompetitive licensing scheme on top of that Has no effect whatsoever on me as a customer.…

Calling on a phone works not so great in crowded and loud places.

Quotes on the phone aren't in writing and I've never had them honored. "Oh that's just an estimate."

Lack of competition has an effect on all customers. Nobody is exempt from economics.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#88

Post by tasty_freeze »

swiley wrote: post #68
mhh__ wrote: post #54

> why should I'm not a huge fan of moralistic takes on business. If you're selling something dangerous then that's wrong, but it's very easy to be blinkered from a high position. If people want to buy food in a certain way I can't really blame them - arguably the same with Uber and taxis, Uber has disrupted an industry which was fairly uncompetitive and politically charged (Their prevalence indicates the customers ap…

Yeah I feel like the “people shouldn’t profit from catastrophe” thing is a big part of why it’s still hard to get PPE (no one can justify extra manufacturing etc.)

You misunderstand the difference between profiting and profiteering. Nobody is claiming companies should sell toilet paper at cost, but they are saying toilet paper shouldn't get 5x more expensive.

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#89

Post by [deleted] »

swiley wrote: post #68
mhh__ wrote: post #54

> why should I'm not a huge fan of moralistic takes on business. If you're selling something dangerous then that's wrong, but it's very easy to be blinkered from a high position. If people want to buy food in a certain way I can't really blame them - arguably the same with Uber and taxis, Uber has disrupted an industry which was fairly uncompetitive and politically charged (Their prevalence indicates the customers ap…

Yeah I feel like the “people shouldn’t profit from catastrophe” thing is a big part of why it’s still hard to get PPE (no one can justify extra manufacturing etc.)

[deleted]

Re: Our restaurants are failing. Why should food delivery apps thrive?

#90

Post by vdnkh »

swiley wrote: post #68
mhh__ wrote: post #54

> why should I'm not a huge fan of moralistic takes on business. If you're selling something dangerous then that's wrong, but it's very easy to be blinkered from a high position. If people want to buy food in a certain way I can't really blame them - arguably the same with Uber and taxis, Uber has disrupted an industry which was fairly uncompetitive and politically charged (Their prevalence indicates the customers ap…

Yeah I feel like the “people shouldn’t profit from catastrophe” thing is a big part of why it’s still hard to get PPE (no one can justify extra manufacturing etc.)

> (no one can justify extra manufacturing etc.

In cases where the free market isn't incentivized to make the supplies we need, it's the job of the government to take over and make them. "Profiting from catastrophe" as you put it will result in price gouging.

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