And just because he's a human
a man would like a little bite to eat
he wants no bull and a lot of talk,
that gives no bread or meat.Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
41–50 of 135 posts
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not buying into anything but investors are. Amazon isn’t profitable. It’s not to avoid paying tax, it’s to reinvest. And because investors don’t care about profits in amazon it makes bezos the richest man. This doesn’t have anything to do with my initial comment though. Amazon is cheap because it pushes costs down in every area. Including workers. And consumers like that.
My answer to your initial question (what do people think amazon should do?) Invest less in growth and more in the human capital that is essential to running the business. Playing by a different set of rules guided by Jeff's meglomania has driven them to the top and that is laudable. Once you've conquered the world do you still need to keep squashing the people you lead? What is it serving at that point other than pur…
Ok, so In your opinion amazon is “done”. Game complete. From now on it’s megalomania to grow.
This isn’t how the world works. If you don’t develop others will take your place. Amazon is simply the best at this right now.
Even so, as consumers everyone has every right not to buy from amazon. But they do.
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have not the faintest clue where you get your immigrant angle from.
Germany also imported farm labor from Romania and cramped them in airplanes without any social distancing. Meanwhile I hear lots of Germans don't really work and still get to live high quality life. I am here suggesting that Germany only cares about its own citizens as they help Germany enable control over capital and means of production, including technology financing, adminstration at the same time it doesn't care…
Given how Germany usually treats their European neighbors this is still an improvement.
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
That might well be, but your view of how consumers should behave is not what happens in the real world. A lot of things in the world should be some way you imagine but they’re not. Otherwise amazon (or Walmart) wouldn’t exist, because everyone would support their local store. But they don’t. Prices matter.
A potential solution would be to pass regulations that protect workers. Examples could include minimum wages, profit sharing plans, or mandatory benefits. That wouldn't necessarily affect consumer behavior but it would affect what strategies corporations are able to use to service that behavior.
Ok, but then amazons prices will be higher. Taken to the extreme amazon might not exist because it can’t deliver the low prices it has so far.
Is that what you want? If you do, that’s fine, that’s a fair enough perspective, but understand that you are probably making it harder for people with less money. Same goes for Walmart.
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#45Reminds me of the weekly clapping for the NHS here in the UK when what they really need is a pay rise and PPE supplies. Sometimes thank you is not enough. In the case of Amazon this seems much more sinister and cult like. I struggle to believe that any of the warehouse workers buy into it.
Do you believe permanently raising wages to offset black swan events such as the COVID-19 epidemic is a wise move? What about the next black swan event? Are they going to be paid enough then or they'll need a pay rise again? Healthcare professionals are paid much more compared to the average UK citizen. Especially doctors, the average pay (100k pounds) is in the 2% of the earners. Emigrant doctors couldn't even dream…
The COVID-19 epidemic is not a black swan event. It is a foreseeable event with a computable probability of happening. Epidemics are recurring events throughout human history, including in the present day. Sure, the recurrence is low, especially for global pandemics, but you can be almost absolutely sure that within the next 100 years there will be another one.
In fact, even in the black swan book, they are explicitly given as an example of rare but NOT black swan-style events.
Point being, governments and corporations should have epidemic plans. It should never come as a surprise. Sure, a small mom-an-pop place or a start-up can't really prepare, but a corporation the size of Amazon should have an epidemic plan and reserves for that. Not having one would simply be irresponsible, both to shareholders and to employees.
Edit to add: airlines, restaurant, and hotel chains should have been the most aware of this. If they do not have plans for resisting a 2-6 month epidemic when business is shut down, then they are simply gambling on government intervention. There is almost 0% probability of operating one of these companies for 50 years and not having to battle at least a local epidemic in a large country.
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have not the faintest clue where you get your immigrant angle from.
Germany also imported farm labor from Romania and cramped them in airplanes without any social distancing. Meanwhile I hear lots of Germans don't really work and still get to live high quality life. I am here suggesting that Germany only cares about its own citizens as they help Germany enable control over capital and means of production, including technology financing, adminstration at the same time it doesn't care…
I am not sure what your problem is.
As a direct neighbor of DE ( I am in NL ), DE seems to have been very generous accepting refugees. A bit too generous for some.
For EU citizens, the EU is a labor transfer union by design. These 'imported laborers' were not forced, they took their chances.
Are you seriously suggesting it is a problem foreigners are not making up the board of directors of German companies?
Still, I have no clue why you are bringing all of this into this discussion, although it reeks of projection.
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
A potential solution would be to pass regulations that protect workers. Examples could include minimum wages, profit sharing plans, or mandatory benefits. That wouldn't necessarily affect consumer behavior but it would affect what strategies corporations are able to use to service that behavior.
Ok, but then amazons prices will be higher. Taken to the extreme amazon might not exist because it can’t deliver the low prices it has so far. Is that what you want? If you do, that’s fine, that’s a fair enough perspective, but understand that you are probably making it harder for people with less money. Same goes for Walmart.
I think that there needs to be a balance. Neither extreme redistribution nor extreme capitalism seem to work well for society as a whole.
I also think that we need more progressive taxation and social benefits which would offset some of the price increases.
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#48I’ve said it before and I won’t tire of saying it: »Gut, das ist der Pfennig! Und wo ist die Mark?« https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ihb2XqEsa4g The same bullshit is happening everywhere. In the German Bundestag MPs gave standing ovations for care workers. Meanwhile those continue to slave away for pennies, now more precariously than ever, while the next items on the MPs agenda are bailouts for airlines and fucking car ma…
Check out this CNBC interview with one of the warehouse organisers who was fired. (Which led to Tim Bray quitting.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15HUGc7R8hw At one point it almost seems like he is suggesting to this poor guy that it is unreasonable for him to protest for better working conditions because "people like me" need to be able to place orders on Amazon while in lockdown. Imagine the difference in salary…
I think it's a knee-jerk feeling that during an emergency you shouldn't refuse to work because you are making it harder on everyone else, as well as taking advantage of the emergency. That sounds reasonable enough, until you think about the fact that unless they organize and demand improvement now they won't have the leverage to do it after the emergency is over.
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#49I’m genuinely interested in what people who think of amazon as an evil company think it should do. It hardly ever makes a profit. Any profit it makes is from AWS usually. It is popular because it’s so cheap, which is why people buy there. So really the solutions can only be: 1. Raise prices and consumers suffer 2. Keep wages low and workers suffer 3. Stop existing. I wonder how many people who complain about amazons…
It is ridiculous that you've boiled it down to those two options. The 3rd is cutting executive salary and paying low wage workers. Also amazon is not cheap compared to my local competitor and aliexpress, people buy from amazon because of convenience. And amazon makes profit on non-AWS products as well, don't be silly. I can literally google their financial statements to prove this.
I am often amazed at how executive pay is overlooked in these debates. I have no qualms with founders making a pretty penny from taking the risk of starting the company. Most executives appointed once company has gained momentum don't deserve the huge pay they get. Don't get me wrong they deserve to be well paid but not as much as we are paying them. I have been in companies where people said to be "absolutely" critical leave announced and company continues to function without missing a beat.
Re: Amazon is handing out 'Thank you' t-shirts to warehouse workers as it cuts pay
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you believe permanently raising wages to offset black swan events such as the COVID-19 epidemic is a wise move? What about the next black swan event? Are they going to be paid enough then or they'll need a pay rise again? Healthcare professionals are paid much more compared to the average UK citizen. Especially doctors, the average pay (100k pounds) is in the 2% of the earners. Emigrant doctors couldn't even dream…
Doctors != majority of health care workers. They are an exception
And most don't make the kind of figure the Poster was saying.