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Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

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Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#111

The internet could be "fixed" by regulating advertising. In the beginning there were rules. No commercial use. When that was lifted we started the descent into where things are now. It began with a lawyer posting an ad about immigration services to Usenet. It has come a long way since then. All the while, the web browser has supported always advertising, making it easier and easier to consume ads, buy and sell via th…

That, historically speaking, is not enough. People will find a away to screw up advertising, whether intentionally or not, so long as there is revenue to earn. Perhaps things have gotten better but when I used to dig into that code for work some years ago it was near negligent incompetent. If you are going to recommend regulation the only thing that works, as exemplified by every other profession, is credentials: lic…

I mean I would agree with your position if most institutions were able to produce competent software engineers and didn't cost a life. And even if they did, I wonder how many of them work for an ad network while they certainly can work at any other job with good pay.

On the other hand, other industries with certification and oaths are much more shady. You can't hammer ethics through academics. If anything, current academical culture encourages being unethical and liar while disguising as opposite. In my own experience, people who seem obsessed with degrees and accredition were the most unethical I had seen. They usually are in management position or law/government stuff.

So I downvoted this comment despite agreeing because this doesn't seem practical. This is unnecessary gatekeeping that will disproportionately affect "poor" people and increase status quo for no benefit in return.

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#112
How to "fix the internet"? Stop advocating for JS-heavy/required sites (including SPAs) whose use requires browsers that depend on a massively complex specification that can only be implemented fully by a huge organisation, and advocate the subset of HTML that would be usable from nearly any browser --- even one that any reasonably skilled developer could write him/herself --- and the highly accessible and user-friendly "internet as a hyperlinked web of documents" which it was envisioned to be.

To try to "fix the internet" in a commercial way just feels a little awkward.

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am tired of hearing this troupe of there is no perfect solution so therefore no solution is acceptable. Another favourite is "I see unethical behaviour at my job, but if I quit nothing would change, therefore I will keep helping them do what they do." If laws were passed that gave users a cause of action against Google and Facebook for breaking rules, then there would be some motivation for those companies to chang…

You still didn't propose a solution. You just said you want to regulate advertising industry but how will you do that? There is a clear precedent that fining doesn't stop companies and political systems won't overfine. So are you going to fine companies more? Are you going to limit the number of fines and dissolve the company? Are you going to propose another GDPR-eiqsque but for advertising? Because GDPR helped big…

Not fines, but the potential for litigation brought by end users with potential for unpredictable damages. This is what creates fear in companies and forces them to change their behaviour to avoid.

Other industries have to contend with the threat of such lawsuits. Big tech is mostly free from such threats.

This is not "my" solution. This is "a" solution. You only want specifics so you can shoot it down.

If online advertising was regulated, e.g., prohibited, then it would take away some of the incentive for Facebook and Google to profit from data collected from/on users. We already saw this "no advertising" rule in effect when commercial use of the early internet was prohibited. AFAIK it was not backed by any legislation. We saw the Google founders release their work as an academic project vowing to combat internet advertising. We saw the Facebook founders disagreeing over whether to show ads. We can see how things played out. The temptation of onlne ads was just too great. Now they are beholden to Wall Street to keep up the surveillance and keep selling ads.

This time around, we could permit commercial transactions, including "e-commerce", but we could prohibit the use of the internet to advertise with violations giving way to not just fines, but potential for lawsuits from end users against advertisers and anyone selling online ads or online ad services.

I have never heard any argument that claimed that what Facebook does is valuable only if they are allowed to use the data they collect in any way they choose. If Facebook was simply a service to allow users to have a page on the Facebook website, and the company was not allowed to conduct surveillance and give third parties (e.g., advertisers) access to those users, I think users would still find Facebook valuable.

If users would not pay for such a service, then the problem is Facebook's, not users'. This is why "Facebook will always be free." It must be free. Otherwise users would find other free solutions.

I believe were Facebook to begin charging fees, we would still find ways to use the web to share photos/video and exchange messages with each other, through a website, for free. Facebook could prove me wrong by charging fees to all their users and letting us see what happens. They will not do that. They are afraid to test their monetary worth to end users.

It is the same story with Google, their search engine and all the works they acquired from third parties, which users often believe Google developed in-house. Those "services" have value to users apart from being vehicles in which Google collects more data and otherwise strengthens their online ad services business.

The aim of this legislation would be to force companies wishing to do business on the internet to sell, for money, something of value to users (cf. third parties) instead of simply operating as middlemen conducting surveillance for the benefit of third parties. No more "user is the product".

Now let's hear about your solution. After all, you stated "Everyone wants things to change" and that must include you.

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#114

How to "fix the internet"? Stop advocating for JS-heavy/required sites (including SPAs) whose use requires browsers that depend on a massively complex specification that can only be implemented fully by a huge organisation, and advocate the subset of HTML that would be usable from nearly any browser --- even one that any reasonably skilled developer could write him/herself --- and the highly accessible and user-frien…

Nothing about that is inherently bad. It leads to bad behaviour, but in and of itself it's not bad. Also, saying that only a big corporation can provide a browser is both the nature of things and a lie. There are hugely complex programs built by "the community" (VLC to give an example).

I want a better internet but I don't want to go back to the past.

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#115

This is completely tangental but I think it is wrong to see the internet as needing another feature in order to be complete. I think we really need a ground up re-think of data. I remember diligently cataloging my movie preferences in LoveFilm, a UK Netflix competitor (when Netflix was a movie-by-mail company). I think I rated thousands of movies. I did the same in Netflix, certainly hundreds of films before they cha…

You can download your data from Google and Facebook

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, historically speaking, is not enough. People will find a away to screw up advertising, whether intentionally or not, so long as there is revenue to earn. Perhaps things have gotten better but when I used to dig into that code for work some years ago it was near negligent incompetent. If you are going to recommend regulation the only thing that works, as exemplified by every other profession, is credentials: lic…

I mean I would agree with your position if most institutions were able to produce competent software engineers and didn't cost a life. And even if they did, I wonder how many of them work for an ad network while they certainly can work at any other job with good pay. On the other hand, other industries with certification and oaths are much more shady. You can't hammer ethics through academics. If anything, current ac…

> I mean I would agree with your position if most institutions were able to produce competent software engineers and didn't cost a life.

Likewise, not everybody who graduates law school should be a lawyer. Education in other industries is just a prerequisite of a larger process and certainly not a qualifier. Other industries solve for this problem with either broker/agent relationships or through forced internships. Those filtering criteria are built into the licensing process and result in forced mentoring at the liability of a license holder.

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#117

Hey all, Patrick here & one of the mentors for the Mozilla Builders "fix-the-internet" incubator https://builders.mozilla.community/ . We have 3 different offerings for this Summer. All incubator style, meaning you meet weekly or biweekly with mentors and we really try to help drive you from point A to point C. 1. $75k investment in a startup. MUST be serious about wanting to build something awesome and put in the ha…

Here's my "fix the internet" idea: build a search engine that is itself ad-free, and searches over only the ad-free segment of the web. More options: allow users to exclude sites with ads, sites with ecommerce, sites with tracking, or simply allow users to build and share lists of sites to exclude. Rationale: the unmonetized or under-monetized web was awesome, a lot of it still exists under the radar now, and it woul…

Wouldn't an ad-free-only search result eventually prioritize for news/info sites that have other forms of sustenance outside of readership?

Digital subscription rates have been rising, but not fast enough to subsist most publications without additional ad revenue.

My concern is that such a search engine would allow private interests to create "news/media/info" sites directly that qualify while long-respected publications are ostracized.

Great idea if the primary intent is to index other types of content outside of that sphere, but based on the history of the modern web I think we could expect that to be gamed pretty quickly in a detrimental way.

Even just writing this comment I keep coming into thoughts and it's making me realize what an interesting subject of discussion it could be. There's a lot of questions in there!

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my "fix the internet" idea: build a search engine that is itself ad-free, and searches over only the ad-free segment of the web. More options: allow users to exclude sites with ads, sites with ecommerce, sites with tracking, or simply allow users to build and share lists of sites to exclude. Rationale: the unmonetized or under-monetized web was awesome, a lot of it still exists under the radar now, and it woul…

https://wiby.me

There is a hidden chat server on there.

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my "fix the internet" idea: build a search engine that is itself ad-free, and searches over only the ad-free segment of the web. More options: allow users to exclude sites with ads, sites with ecommerce, sites with tracking, or simply allow users to build and share lists of sites to exclude. Rationale: the unmonetized or under-monetized web was awesome, a lot of it still exists under the radar now, and it woul…

https://wiby.me

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla goes incubator with ‘Fix The Internet’ startup early-stage investments

#120

The internet could be "fixed" by regulating advertising. In the beginning there were rules. No commercial use. When that was lifted we started the descent into where things are now. It began with a lawyer posting an ad about immigration services to Usenet. It has come a long way since then. All the while, the web browser has supported always advertising, making it easier and easier to consume ads, buy and sell via th…

Furthermore, the ads crowded out any investment in a micropayment solution that might provide an alternative to monetizing websites. They have a monopoly on financing the websites we use daily. The internet will continue to get worse until we can bypass the tech giants to pay for our web sites.
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