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Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#61

Post by nradov »

dessant wrote: post #39
cj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone sneezed on... Sanjay Gupta was talking on CNN (I know, not the most reputable source) and at one point flat out said "If a cook in the kitchen of a restauraunt you're ordering from has covid19 and sneezes on your food, it won't get passed on to you, since this is not a food borne illness". I was quite shocked to hear that. I'd be very curious to see what actual science says about food as an infection vector…

I have recently watched two of Gupta's videos about grocery shopping and disinfecting groceries, and they were light entertainment, with very little practical value. There can be little difference between the virus reaching your lips by coming in contact with recently handled food or your hands. Restaurant food is absolutely an infection vector, we're just in the phase where we pretend it not to be for economic reaso…

Please stop spreading misinformation about a serious topic.

"Currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19.”

https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food...

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#62

Post by adam »

dessant wrote: post #39
cj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone sneezed on... Sanjay Gupta was talking on CNN (I know, not the most reputable source) and at one point flat out said "If a cook in the kitchen of a restauraunt you're ordering from has covid19 and sneezes on your food, it won't get passed on to you, since this is not a food borne illness". I was quite shocked to hear that. I'd be very curious to see what actual science says about food as an infection vector…

I have recently watched two of Gupta's videos about grocery shopping and disinfecting groceries, and they were light entertainment, with very little practical value. There can be little difference between the virus reaching your lips by coming in contact with recently handled food or your hands. Restaurant food is absolutely an infection vector, we're just in the phase where we pretend it not to be for economic reaso…

A very well sourced article on SeriousEats begs to differ: https://www.seriouseats.com/2020/03/food-safety-and-coronavi...

I'd be interested in the counter sources for your claims as we've been ordering in pretty regularly!

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#63

Post by cpncrunch »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #56
cpncrunch wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True for herpesviruses as they infect the immune system, but rhinovirus and coronavirus don't reactivate.

And chickenpox infects the nervous system.

Chickenpox is a herpesvirus too, although very different symptoms to "common cold".

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#64

Post by gwern »

michrassena wrote: post #28
Buttons840 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There have been many experiments running rats through all kinds of mazes, and so on--with little clear result. But in 1937 a man named Young did a very interesting one. He had a long corridor with doors all along one side where the rats came in, and doors along the other side where the food was. He wanted to see if he could train the rats to go in at the third door down from wherever he started them off. No. The rat…

I've tried to find this paper, but I can't. There's a Paul Thomas Young, who did study rats in that timeframe. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1421573?seq=1

We've been trying to find it for a good 9 years now, still no leads: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6vSJe9WXCNvy3Wpoh/the-declin... https://twitter.com/gwern/status/933173119631507456

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#65

Post by sjg007 »

abfan1127 wrote: post #51
sjg007 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is that we are wearing masks and gloves so despite those protections you still can get sick while maintaining 6 foot social distance and even strictly limiting the time in a store (if ever)... Also the vector is one adult here max.

short of N95 masks, masks don't help you at all. In fact, they make it worse from the standpoint that as you touch it, you are applying various yuck on it to inhale.

Right but 6 feet and more in a highly ventilated store should... so..

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#66

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

nradov wrote: post #61
dessant wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have recently watched two of Gupta's videos about grocery shopping and disinfecting groceries, and they were light entertainment, with very little practical value. There can be little difference between the virus reaching your lips by coming in contact with recently handled food or your hands. Restaurant food is absolutely an infection vector, we're just in the phase where we pretend it not to be for economic reaso…

Please stop spreading misinformation about a serious topic. "Currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19.” https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food...

I for one hate this “no evidence” phrase that people are using.

Sure, there are no double blind, placebo controlled randomized studies looking at that.

Also, because of the respiratory nature of the spread of coronavirus, it would be really hard to tease out someone who got it from food or food packaging.

However, Corona virus isn’t the only virus that we no about. We know Hepatitis A can spread in the food. We know Norovirus can spread in the food. Talk about how coronavirus is different that makes you think that spread is unlikely. Also, If you don’t have any idea, say “we don’t know”.

But scientists and doctors use “currently we do t have evidence of” to avoid making a call. Then when lay people see that statement, 9 times out of 10 they take it to mean that “scientists think that you can’t get coronavirus from food.” When the statement is saying no such thing.

But “currently, there is no evidence of” needs to go. Experts need to step up to the plate and give their expert opinion. If there are no direct studies say so and then use your knowledge of various viral protein and related viruses and food conditions, etc to give an actionable recommendation.

I saw this with the question of masks. Experts hid behind “no evidence that masks prevent infection”. Yes the double, blind placebo co trolled studies are lacking, but medical knowledge suggests that reducing the number and spread of infected dropplets is probably a good thing, and given that wearing a mask is a very safe intervention unlikely to cause side-effects, masks should probably have been recommended from the start. The Asian cities where wearing masks is more cultural seemed to have fared a lot better.

In the midst of a pandemic, I think for a lot of questions the null hypothesis should be that corona virus can be transmitted by this, and I should have evidence with 95% confidence that it cannot be.

Thus, a phrase “no evidence of” makes we worried about whatever they are discussing.

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#67

Post by navd »

nradov wrote: post #61
dessant wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have recently watched two of Gupta's videos about grocery shopping and disinfecting groceries, and they were light entertainment, with very little practical value. There can be little difference between the virus reaching your lips by coming in contact with recently handled food or your hands. Restaurant food is absolutely an infection vector, we're just in the phase where we pretend it not to be for economic reaso…

Please stop spreading misinformation about a serious topic. "Currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19.” https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food...

You’re right, but it helps to use some common sense here.

Is it possible? Absolutely. We don’t need to test feeding someone fast food sneezed on by an infected cook to find out either...

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#68

Post by mnm1 »

cj wrote: post #31
avar wrote: post #10

It's interesting that the "Environment" section mentions this in passing: > Food comes mainly from packets or tins [...] There is a daily bread bake, and special occasions merit the thawing of a small amount of meat from a -20 C. freezer or from an ice cave in the nearby glacier. Then in the "Discussion" section: > The occurrence of a common cold during isolation, when the chances of introduction of new infection fro…

> Someone sneezed on... Sanjay Gupta was talking on CNN (I know, not the most reputable source) and at one point flat out said "If a cook in the kitchen of a restauraunt you're ordering from has covid19 and sneezes on your food, it won't get passed on to you, since this is not a food borne illness". I was quite shocked to hear that. I'd be very curious to see what actual science says about food as an infection vector…

At the same time, guidelines say not to share food. So either that guideline is superfluous for covid, or the government just wants people to keep ordering takeout despite it being dangerous. Given their record so far, I won't be ordering takeout till after the pandemic, especially given the amount of restaurant workers who go to work sick and the relative lack of cleanliness in restaurants in general.

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#69

Post by mnm1 »

nradov wrote: post #61
dessant wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have recently watched two of Gupta's videos about grocery shopping and disinfecting groceries, and they were light entertainment, with very little practical value. There can be little difference between the virus reaching your lips by coming in contact with recently handled food or your hands. Restaurant food is absolutely an infection vector, we're just in the phase where we pretend it not to be for economic reaso…

Please stop spreading misinformation about a serious topic. "Currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19.” https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food...

In January, there was no evidence of human to human transmission either.

Also, appeal to authority is a fallacy, double so with the authority you chose (though at least it's not the cdc).

Re: Outbreak of common colds at Antarctic base after 17 weeks of isolation (1973)

#70

Post by SiVal »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #66
nradov wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop spreading misinformation about a serious topic. "Currently there is no evidence of food or food packaging being associated with transmission of COVID-19.” https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food...

I for one hate this “no evidence” phrase that people are using. Sure, there are no double blind, placebo controlled randomized studies looking at that. Also, because of the respiratory nature of the spread of coronavirus, it would be really hard to tease out someone who got it from food or food packaging. However, Corona virus isn’t the only virus that we no about. We know Hepatitis A can spread in the food. We know…

Yes, the citation of "currently no evidence of X" as if it meant "good evidence of NOT_X" is just the sort of thing that demonstrates that those who support policies of silencing "misinformation" are no better informed that the rest of us.
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