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Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

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Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#41

Post by abellerose »

djshcur8 wrote: post #33

1. Yes, of course. No government, religion, or society should have control over another's life or death. See below. 2. Yes. And yes mental illness like depression should qualify (See below). But mental illnesses where person is extremely disillusioned should not. 3. Yes. Appearance sure, it is their life. 4. Sure, see below. However, I think person who is committing suicide still has responsibilities to society inclu…

Starving to death is arguably torture depending on the culture you grow up in. I think I've read about Prayopavesa and I'm not sure if lighting yourself on fire is related but methods of that sort are not really acceptable for all types of people that would just want a drug making them fall asleep with eventually death following. Some people go their whole life without obtaining the discipline to put down the spoon. So I'm kind of wondering if some people just cannot do what you're suggesting.

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#42

Post by meiraleal »

abellerose wrote: post #40
meiraleal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your misery doesn't make the whole world miserable, paulcole. I bet you have at least one thing that if you could fix asap, with the solution you want, may it be money, love, health, or anithing else, you would not be permanently miserable as you have been saying you are. So if it can be fixed and improved, even if you lack the willpower to go forward, it is not permanent. You make it permanent, and I definitely don'…

What you're communicating is the blame is on the person suffering if we simplify it. That assumption is not correct and it's arguable based on what ideology you prescribe to. Some people understand determinism and realize people don't have free will because it's simply an illusion. So people that suffer throughout life without finding a solution are just suffering because of how the universe made the unique condition…

Nobody is talking about everyone having a happy life. But if you are suffering the whole life and not with a terminal disease, you played life wrong. There are tons of social levers that can be used for one to not suffer the same thing a whole existence. If NOTHING is interesting to someone, that's definitely not a misery problem but a ego problem. I don't care about anyone else egos miserability if they don't want to improve. There is always a step forward, even in the pain. Pretty much every american problem is small compared to afghans problems but you still have lots of people happy there so I don't buy this "my whole existence is shit" approach.

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#43

Post by abellerose »

meiraleal wrote: post #42
abellerose wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're communicating is the blame is on the person suffering if we simplify it. That assumption is not correct and it's arguable based on what ideology you prescribe to. Some people understand determinism and realize people don't have free will because it's simply an illusion. So people that suffer throughout life without finding a solution are just suffering because of how the universe made the unique condition…

Nobody is talking about everyone having a happy life. But if you are suffering the whole life and not with a terminal disease, you played life wrong. There are tons of social levers that can be used for one to not suffer the same thing a whole existence. If NOTHING is interesting to someone, that's definitely not a misery problem but a ego problem. I don't care about anyone else egos miserability if they don't want t…

You seem to have an ego problem if you dismiss the possibility that people are stuck in a suffering life outside their control. Every life is unique with how circumstances are for the person and the order of events that follow. Blaming the person for not doing something is a scapegoat without any proof that things could have been different if the person tried whatever. Also comparing someone living in poverty or being homeless while somehow being happy isn't going to help someone is different circumstances that's suffering intolerable pain with wanting to just die. Life isn't so special to everyone and similar to how not everyone believes in God. People are different and which is why I think it's more compassionate to not be so rigid with forcing people to live if they don't wish to.

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#44

Post by meiraleal »

abellerose wrote: post #39
b_t_s wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did I understand this wrong? Yes, this is a misunderstanding "I think almost nobody would argue that depression should qualify you for assisted suicide".....because everybody would argue that you should see a psychologist, get your depression treated, and go on to live a long and happy life.

I know some persons go on to take their life after suffering depression for majority of their life. I'm unsure if people should take the stance of discriminating one illness compared to another because it may not always be treatable in the sense of being tolerable for one person compared to another.

That's why nobody should be legally allowed to take or have their life taken by any reason.

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#45

Post by meiraleal »

abellerose wrote: post #43
meiraleal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is talking about everyone having a happy life. But if you are suffering the whole life and not with a terminal disease, you played life wrong. There are tons of social levers that can be used for one to not suffer the same thing a whole existence. If NOTHING is interesting to someone, that's definitely not a misery problem but a ego problem. I don't care about anyone else egos miserability if they don't want t…

You seem to have an ego problem if you dismiss the possibility that people are stuck in a suffering life outside their control. Every life is unique with how circumstances are for the person and the order of events that follow. Blaming the person for not doing something is a scapegoat without any proof that things could have been different if the person tried whatever. Also comparing someone living in poverty or bein…

And you seem to have the need to ascertain that some people suffer so much that they should be allowed to die.

> Blaming the person for not doing something is a scapegoat

oh, how that is a scapegoat and blaming luck or the world or randomness isn't?

I don't care if there are people that don't see any possibility of them being happy. That possibility exists to anybody that is not dead. Unless you have a totally biased perception of reality and would only be happy if you were the next Elon Musk, a hollywood actor or a famous sportsman. This kind of misery, which is the majority of the "misery" in the world, I really don't care and don't feel empathy. Suffering of a hollow existence is not really suffering, especially if it is related to the choices they made in the past.

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#46

Post by abellerose »

meiraleal wrote: post #45
abellerose wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have an ego problem if you dismiss the possibility that people are stuck in a suffering life outside their control. Every life is unique with how circumstances are for the person and the order of events that follow. Blaming the person for not doing something is a scapegoat without any proof that things could have been different if the person tried whatever. Also comparing someone living in poverty or bein…

And you seem to have the need to ascertain that some people suffer so much that they should be allowed to die. > Blaming the person for not doing something is a scapegoat oh, how that is a scapegoat and blaming luck or the world or randomness isn't? I don't care if there are people that don't see any possibility of them being happy. That possibility exists to anybody that is not dead. Unless you have a totally biased…

Do you want me to seriously comment to what you just wrote? Similar to your other comment dismissing all types of intolerable pain from whatever illness. Seems fanatic like.

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#47

Post by meiraleal »

abellerose wrote: post #46
meiraleal wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you seem to have the need to ascertain that some people suffer so much that they should be allowed to die. > Blaming the person for not doing something is a scapegoat oh, how that is a scapegoat and blaming luck or the world or randomness isn't? I don't care if there are people that don't see any possibility of them being happy. That possibility exists to anybody that is not dead. Unless you have a totally biased…

Do you want me to seriously comment to what you just wrote? Similar to your other comment dismissing all types of intolerable pain from whatever illness. Seems fanatic like.

And looks like you are looking for validation? Can you please define intolerable pain so we discuss it with facts? Please describe a situation that encompass the main chunk of the population, not a "intolerable pain" that only 1% of the people suffer. I'll not formulate my opinion based on the suffering of 1% of the population.

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#48

Post by abellerose »

meiraleal wrote: post #47
abellerose wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want me to seriously comment to what you just wrote? Similar to your other comment dismissing all types of intolerable pain from whatever illness. Seems fanatic like.

And looks like you are looking for validation? Can you please define intolerable pain so we discuss it with facts? Please describe a situation that encompass the main chunk of the population, not a "intolerable pain" that only 1% of the people suffer. I'll not formulate my opinion based on the suffering of 1% of the population.

> I'll not formulate my opinion based on the suffering of 1% of the population.

Yet you seem to have an opinion already made against those people. You didn't provide facts as well for any of your comments. :/

We all know that pain can only be experienced by oneself and we have no way of truly knowing how painful one may be experiencing from an illness compared to another. That's why there has to be personal responsibility for oneself to make such a decision and compassion from society to agree someone suffering should be able to have a safe death if they truly wish to end everything. I've been in multiple medical settings because of my type of work and where pain truly makes life nothing more than ugly & despicable. I can understand your position if you've never seen a person in pain for decades and if you think all things are curable when it's simply not the case for everyone. I've also spoken to multiple doctors that take your position because they believe someone has to be the guinea pigs for progressing humanity while searching for cures.

Anyway I can give you a personal email of mine if you wish to discuss your opinions in great detail on this topic because I'm always trying to understand both sides. I don't think HN comments is the better option.

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#49

Post by dang »

meiraleal wrote: post #47
abellerose wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want me to seriously comment to what you just wrote? Similar to your other comment dismissing all types of intolerable pain from whatever illness. Seems fanatic like.

And looks like you are looking for validation? Can you please define intolerable pain so we discuss it with facts? Please describe a situation that encompass the main chunk of the population, not a "intolerable pain" that only 1% of the people suffer. I'll not formulate my opinion based on the suffering of 1% of the population.

Please stop using HN for flamewar. You've been gratuitously provocative in this thread, which is a fancy way of saying trolling. I'm not saying you meant to at all—but we have to judge this by effects, not intent: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Any internet discussion that degenerates to "Can you please define" and "Please describe a" has left the path of curious conversation.

Also, personal attacks, such as you did with paulcole upthread, are bannable offences here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Should assisted death/suicide be legal?

#50

Post by dang »

abellerose wrote: post #48
meiraleal wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And looks like you are looking for validation? Can you please define intolerable pain so we discuss it with facts? Please describe a situation that encompass the main chunk of the population, not a "intolerable pain" that only 1% of the people suffer. I'll not formulate my opinion based on the suffering of 1% of the population.

> I'll not formulate my opinion based on the suffering of 1% of the population. Yet you seem to have an opinion already made against those people. You didn't provide facts as well for any of your comments. :/ We all know that pain can only be experienced by oneself and we have no way of truly knowing how painful one may be experiencing from an illness compared to another. That's why there has to be personal responsib…

Please don't get into tit-for-tat flamewar spats. It's against the site guidelines to feed egregious comments by replying—that's our fancy way of saying 'please don't feed the trolls'.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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