TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#311

Post by readarticle » Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:38 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #273

readarticle wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds pointlessly globalist. In and of itself, what value does raising the living standard of millions of poor Chinese provide to Americans?

> In and of itself, what value does raising the living standard of millions of poor Chinese provide to Americans? Rising living standard means more consumers that can buy American goods, and it also means that the likelihood of civil war/uprisings due to poverty goes down, which in turn reduces the potential for wars.

Assuming a vacuum, the larger market is always fair, but I don’t see how it’s at all possible to value the presence or absence of conflict without a context.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#312

Post by BostonEnginerd » Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:40 AM UTC

xxs wrote: post #304

Nokinside wrote: post #269

Important detail: This is not GIGAFAB facility. Only 20,000 wafers per month is between mini- and megafab for TSMC. I suspect the production goes to US defense applications. Pompeo tweeting about it seems to confirm it. https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1261143980634509318 ? >Secretary Pompeo >@SecPompeo >The U.S. welcomes TSMC’s intention to invest $12B in the most advanced 5-nanometer semiconductor fabrication f…

Seems like the most of the discussion here totally missed that part - that would be no consumer grade chips and likely the prime client would be US military. 20k wafers (perhaps 450mm ones?) with unknown yield (likely 80ish) is quite low. For reference AMD 5700 has die area of ~250mm.

From what I can see, 450mm is dead. It has been years since I’ve seen any action on this.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#313

Post by blackhaz » Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:43 AM UTC

fermienrico wrote: post #179

Lind5 wrote: post #64

Actually, this is true. The big question is what's going on behind the scenes. China has been busy building up its own supply chain after the U.S. closed off shipments of any U.S.-based R&D to Huawei last summer. It also has made statements that Taiwan is part of China since then, which has left the U.S. without an advanced-node fab. Intel is at least a node behind both Samsung and TSMC, and the U.S. has no trusted f…

China marching into Taiwan would be a losing move. Never mind the civil unrest, the entire world would bail out of China. Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand + India would be even more alerted than they are right now with HK situation. The narrative in these countries is quickly evolving. CCP is over playing their hand by engaging in asymetrical trade.

Who will give a shit, really? Russia is marching into all neighboring countries since what, 60s? and nobody raises a voice. Hell, I think they could march into Czech republic and EU would still be debating if they should continue buying Russian gas. Rapid geopolitical shifts between the West and China are unlikely, IMHO.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#314

Post by AlgorithmicTime » Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:45 AM UTC

Lind5 wrote: post #64

Actually, this is true. The big question is what's going on behind the scenes. China has been busy building up its own supply chain after the U.S. closed off shipments of any U.S.-based R&D to Huawei last summer. It also has made statements that Taiwan is part of China since then, which has left the U.S. without an advanced-node fab. Intel is at least a node behind both Samsung and TSMC, and the U.S. has no trusted f…

China probably can't win decisively in Taiwan in the short term.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#315

Post by boomboomsubban » Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:45 AM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #292

evgen wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I like the Ukrainian people, no one cared about Crimea because it was of absolutely no strategic importance to anyone but Russia. Taiwan is critically important to the US. The US _will_ go to war to defend it, and China knows this.

Just a change in who is President is all that China is waiting for.

They've waited seventy years for the right president. How many more decades will they wait and how will they react when they discover the military can probably force any president's hand?

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#316

Post by swiley » Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:53 AM UTC

classified wrote: post #253

nickff wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capital requirements for the creation of a modern high-speed semiconductor fabrication facility, and the corresponding integrated circuit design make ‘open hardware’, or large number of interchangeable competitors unlikely. How and why should software be decoupled from hardware when there are so few hardware suppliers?

And the situation has only gotten worse since everyone and their coffee machine is running on x86. It is high time we created alternatives.

I think the only piece of software I use that’s tied to x86 is the discord native client (which is pretty dumb since it’s an electron app.) This is something I’m (hopefully) not using anymore after quarantine.

Personally I have plenty of arm machines. Part of the reason I switched from fvwm to cwm was because I couldn’t build fvwm on one machine and move it to the other.

In college they asked for x86 windows binaries for lots of the assignments and I always cross compiled from an arm machine (because that’s where I had the toolchain set up and didn’t feel like duplicating it on my x86 laptop.) If you feel stuck on x86 use more FOSS.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#317

Post by 101404 » Fri, May 15, 2020, 11:01 AM UTC

fermienrico wrote: post #179

Lind5 wrote: post #64

Actually, this is true. The big question is what's going on behind the scenes. China has been busy building up its own supply chain after the U.S. closed off shipments of any U.S.-based R&D to Huawei last summer. It also has made statements that Taiwan is part of China since then, which has left the U.S. without an advanced-node fab. Intel is at least a node behind both Samsung and TSMC, and the U.S. has no trusted f…

China marching into Taiwan would be a losing move. Never mind the civil unrest, the entire world would bail out of China. Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand + India would be even more alerted than they are right now with HK situation. The narrative in these countries is quickly evolving. CCP is over playing their hand by engaging in asymetrical trade.

China is 1.4 billion people. That's more people than the western world combined.

Once China has "acquired" the technology, it doesn't need an export market anymore for economies of scale. China's internal market is more than large enough for that.

Just a detail to keep in mind.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#318

Post by barrkel » Fri, May 15, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

magicsmoke wrote: post #188

fermienrico wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China marching into Taiwan would be a losing move. Never mind the civil unrest, the entire world would bail out of China. Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand + India would be even more alerted than they are right now with HK situation. The narrative in these countries is quickly evolving. CCP is over playing their hand by engaging in asymetrical trade.

China won't march into Taiwan until they can win a naval war with the US to keep the US from retaliating. And if China can do that, they won't have to march into Taiwan. 2050 Indo-pacific naval war is my prediction.

China can almost certainly win a naval war with the US already; or rather, negate the US's naval force projection tool of choice, the aircraft carrier, with anti-ship ballistic missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-26 - range of 2500 miles

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#319

Post by baybal2 » Fri, May 15, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

_fq4v wrote: post #189

fermienrico wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China marching into Taiwan would be a losing move. Never mind the civil unrest, the entire world would bail out of China. Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand + India would be even more alerted than they are right now with HK situation. The narrative in these countries is quickly evolving. CCP is over playing their hand by engaging in asymetrical trade.

> Never mind the civil unrest, the entire world would bail out of China. That is not clear.. at all. Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand -- the non-US western allies -- have all known exactly what China's end goal is and have down jack diddly squat to put pressure on them. The only thing preventing China from taking out Taiwan is the United States. Europe and the rest of the world is too cowardly to even do anythi…

> The only thing preventing China from taking out Taiwan is the United States.

The only thing preventing China from taking out Taiwan is their mutual economic annihilation in case hostilities intensify.

Taiwan's relationship with the US has been at best ambivalent. Do not forget US was close to waving a hand on the island just a decade ago.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#320

Post by 101404 » Fri, May 15, 2020, 11:04 AM UTC

_fq4v wrote: post #189

fermienrico wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China marching into Taiwan would be a losing move. Never mind the civil unrest, the entire world would bail out of China. Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand + India would be even more alerted than they are right now with HK situation. The narrative in these countries is quickly evolving. CCP is over playing their hand by engaging in asymetrical trade.

> Never mind the civil unrest, the entire world would bail out of China. That is not clear.. at all. Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand -- the non-US western allies -- have all known exactly what China's end goal is and have down jack diddly squat to put pressure on them. The only thing preventing China from taking out Taiwan is the United States. Europe and the rest of the world is too cowardly to even do anythi…

> The only thing preventing China from taking out Taiwan is the United States. Europe and the rest of the world is too cowardly to even do anything

As a European, I have to agree. Here in Germany, I am sure the government would do nothing (other than symbolic protest), because it would be bad for German companies (short term).