Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

tsmc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 438 posts

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#81

Post by product50 »

kick wrote: post #57

Well that's the quickest I've ever seen reality prove itself stranger than I could have ever imagined: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23186174 I'd be taking bets on how quickly this is going to turn out poorly, but my last tiny ember of faith in any corporate actor being capable of rational thought just got extinguished, so I could be really wrong!

What a useless comment. You have no explanation and are just relying on your ill conceived gut feeling, which has been clearly proving wrong, to say this doesn't make sense. Why should anyone trust you?

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#82

Post by arcticbull »

troughway wrote: post #73

Bringing back manufacturing and other things of industrial nature from China isn't just good strategic planning in a time of uncertainty. It is also a gesture of good faith because supporting a dictatorship that actively imprisons over a million people in concentration camps and uses them for organ harvesting should, at the very least, be punished economically. There is no finding equal ground or compromise with thos…

This isn't being brought back from China, TSMC is Taiwanese and operates the overwhelming majority of their fabs in Taiwan. They have a fab in Shanghai and Nanjing which I believe is both not their leading-edge process and to supply the mainland market. [1]

From what I've heard they have no interest in moving their closely guarded leading-edge processes out of Taiwan, and this is probably a domestic fab for supplying the military with on US soil.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#83

Post by splintercell »

dntbnmpls wrote: post #74
sremani wrote: post #66

Welcome to USA. Smart Move TSMC and Taiwan. You have earned a friend for life. For the doubters, this is just the beginning of Re-industrilization of America.

> Welcome to USA. Smart Move TSMC and Taiwan. They've operated in the US for a while now. From the press release: "In the United States, TSMC currently operates a fab in Camas, Washington and design centers in both Austin, Texas and San Jose, California. The Arizona facility would be TSMC’s second manufacturing site in the United States." > You have earned a friend for life. What a bizarre comment. If they leave, are…

> If they leave, are they your enemy for life then?

(New) Relationship with strangers can be in one of the 3 categories:

- Neutral - Friend - Enemy

OP is moving the company into Friend category (from Neutral). I don't know what he'd do if they decide to move back, but if they declare the company as an "enemy" then that creates a perverse incentive where people in Neutral category would refrain from becoming friend because that risks them becoming enemy.

So to be prudent OP must move the company into 'Neutral' category again otherwise they won't get future 'Friends'

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#84

Post by option »

puzzledobserver wrote: post #76

What is the environmental footprint of a typical fab? From what I understand, modern chips are free of conflict materials, but are there toxic byproducts which would cause trouble with the EPA?

the problem with environment footprint is that moving it to other country solves nothing and often makes matters worse (due to more relaxed standards). We all live on the same planet.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#85

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

troughway wrote: post #73

Bringing back manufacturing and other things of industrial nature from China isn't just good strategic planning in a time of uncertainty. It is also a gesture of good faith because supporting a dictatorship that actively imprisons over a million people in concentration camps and uses them for organ harvesting should, at the very least, be punished economically. There is no finding equal ground or compromise with thos…

Do economic sanctions work alter the behaviour of the targetted government?

I was of the understanding the effectiveness of economic sanctions are generally debated, and they tend to have unintended consequences.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#86

Post by sneak »

troughway wrote: post #73

Bringing back manufacturing and other things of industrial nature from China isn't just good strategic planning in a time of uncertainty. It is also a gesture of good faith because supporting a dictatorship that actively imprisons over a million people in concentration camps and uses them for organ harvesting should, at the very least, be punished economically. There is no finding equal ground or compromise with thos…

I'm not sure that the decision is A xor B. Further supporting a fiercely nationalist permanent-warmongering country that also has a long-term track record of abusing human rights, also operates concentration camps, also operates torture prisons, also has a 5x higher per-capita population imprisoned based on ethnicity than China does is not that much of an upgrade in my view.

It's great news that TSMC is making more cutting-edge process fabs on more continents, and will benefit all/most of humanity no matter which country they're in. Having more sites with this production ability/capacity is simply a good thing, no matter what happens with China, Taiwan, the US, China/Taiwan, or China/US. Hopefully they open more in further countries, so that this can stop being a strategic bargaining chip (no pun intended) for the warmongers, and can just be a steady and available supply of fast, low-power chips for anyone who needs or wants them.

The anti-X, anti-Y politicization and nationalistic bluster that comes along with these sorts of things isn't super relevant, interesting, or even that on topic.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#87

Post by trevi »

troughway wrote: post #73

Bringing back manufacturing and other things of industrial nature from China isn't just good strategic planning in a time of uncertainty. It is also a gesture of good faith because supporting a dictatorship that actively imprisons over a million people in concentration camps and uses them for organ harvesting should, at the very least, be punished economically. There is no finding equal ground or compromise with thos…

This does not make sense. TSMC is from Taiwan, which is to all practical extent independent from China, politically and economically.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#88

Post by sremani »

modeless wrote: post #79
sremani wrote: post #66

Welcome to USA. Smart Move TSMC and Taiwan. You have earned a friend for life. For the doubters, this is just the beginning of Re-industrilization of America.

The US has lots of advanced fabs already. This isn't the part of the supply chain we're missing. This does nothing to reduce our dependence on China for manufacturing. Edit: and this isn't actually a cutting edge fab. By the time it opens in 2024 the cutting edge process will be 3nm or beyond.

I understand, but fabs are realm of competition with China and their 2025 plan.

I am big fanboy of Robert Lighthizer, and with Phase 1 effectively ripped we are going to see a lot of moving things. May not happen immediately, first it will be slow then sudden.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#89

Post by dntbnmpls »

product50 wrote: post #78
dntbnmpls wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Welcome to USA. Smart Move TSMC and Taiwan. They've operated in the US for a while now. From the press release: "In the United States, TSMC currently operates a fab in Camas, Washington and design centers in both Austin, Texas and San Jose, California. The Arizona facility would be TSMC’s second manufacturing site in the United States." > You have earned a friend for life. What a bizarre comment. If they leave, are…

If you know anything about the geopolitics behind this, this was a forced move which TSMC wouldn't have otherwise done. If TSMC didn't do it, then US State Department would have funded Intel to produce their 5nm fabs here. So yeah, educate yourself and then behave reasonably.

> If you know anything about the geopolitics behind this, this was a forced move which TSMC wouldn't have otherwise done. If you know anything about the geopolitics behind this, this was a forced move which TSMC wouldn't have otherwise done.

I know. Where in my comment did I say otherwise?

> So yeah, educate yourself and then behave reasonably.

Okay, thanks?

Did you by any chance respond to the wrong comment? Such bizarre comments in this thread.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#90

Post by remarkEon »

trevi wrote: post #87
troughway wrote: post #73

Bringing back manufacturing and other things of industrial nature from China isn't just good strategic planning in a time of uncertainty. It is also a gesture of good faith because supporting a dictatorship that actively imprisons over a million people in concentration camps and uses them for organ harvesting should, at the very least, be punished economically. There is no finding equal ground or compromise with thos…

This does not make sense. TSMC is from Taiwan, which is to all practical extent independent from China, politically and economically.

I think the point is that PRC considers Taiwan as part of broader China, and this move makes that statement less likely to be taken seriously. Which is good.
Post reply on HN