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TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

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Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#61

Post by Exmoor »

jagger27 wrote: post #56

As someone else mentioned in the other thread, it's a bit odd that they're aiming for 5nm production at this fab in 2024 because 3nm should be ready to go by then. You'd sorta think that since they're already breaking ground on their 3nm fab in Taiwan that any other new builds would be 3nm as well.

I'm not exactly a chip manufacturing expert, but:

1. By the time this fab is in major construction a lot of the lessons learned for 5nm will be known and can more readily be implemented in the USA without splitting precious engineering resources to other countries.

2. 3nm will be the most expensive parts and sell at a premium, which will limit demand.

3. This carries some risk, so giving up the bleeding edge tech might not be the best idea.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#62

Post by Teknoman117 »

kick wrote: post #57

Well that's the quickest I've ever seen reality prove itself stranger than I could have ever imagined: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23186174 I'd be taking bets on how quickly this is going to turn out poorly, but my last tiny ember of faith in any corporate actor being capable of rational thought just got extinguished, so I could be really wrong!

why is TSMC building a plant in the US an irrational thought?

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#63

Post by salimmadjd »

part of me is curious if this is a way to appease the administration due to high pressure [0] and wait out the next election cycle. They are talking about 2021-2029.

Even if Trump is reelected, I could see them leasing an existing fab and have a ribbon cutting ceremony for Trump to get his photo-op and then just weigh their options with minimal additional expenditure (they've already commented on opening a fab in US won't be economical [1]) with the thinking that a few $million spent on a lease and avoiding antagonizing Trump might all be worthwhile in any kind of tariffs on their business.

[0] http://archive.is/XYzCd

[1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/TSMC-weighs-new-...

edited my post by adding these articles as well as editing the text to better reference the links

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#64

Post by Lind5 »

Actually, this is true. The big question is what's going on behind the scenes. China has been busy building up its own supply chain after the U.S. closed off shipments of any U.S.-based R&D to Huawei last summer. It also has made statements that Taiwan is part of China since then, which has left the U.S. without an advanced-node fab. Intel is at least a node behind both Samsung and TSMC, and the U.S. has no trusted foundry on U.S. soil capable of 7nm volume production, let alone 5nm or 3nm.

For the U.S., this is a potential disaster. If China marches into Taiwan, the U.S. will be left with no advanced-node manufacturing and it will have lost the technology race. It would take at least four to six years to recover, and by that time China would own the market. This is very scary for the U.S., which needs to develop AI chips at the most advanced nodes because density equals more accelerators and other types of processing elements. Even that isn't enough, which is why companies developing AI chips are stitching together chips that are larger than a single reticle. (https://semiengineering.com/the-risk-of-two-supply-chains/)

It goes further than that, too. The DoD needs AI chips, too. In the past, the DoD relied on older nodes. That's changed because it needs transistor density for AI. More MACs equals more performance. On top of all of this, TSMC owns the bulk of the fabless market. So this will happen. The big question is who's funding this move.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#65

Post by devy »

magicsmoke wrote: post #40
kaonwarb wrote: post #12

Has been under discussion for some time: "Mark Liu, the chairman of TSMC, said he had recently discussed options for a new factory in the United States with the Commerce Department. The stumbling block was money; major subsidies would be required, he said, as it is more expensive to operate in America than Taiwan." ( https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/technology/pentagon-taiwa... )

What makes up the price differential?

Employee salaries.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#67

Post by selimthegrim »

salimmadjd wrote: post #63

part of me is curious if this is a way to appease the administration due to high pressure [0] and wait out the next election cycle. They are talking about 2021-2029. Even if Trump is reelected, I could see them leasing an existing fab and have a ribbon cutting ceremony for Trump to get his photo-op and then just weigh their options with minimal additional expenditure (they've already commented on opening a fab in US…

The thing is WI is already mad at Foxconn for doing that. AZ is even more of swing state so I don't know if same trick will work twice

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#69

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

sremani wrote: post #66

Welcome to USA. Smart Move TSMC and Taiwan. You have earned a friend for life. For the doubters, this is just the beginning of Re-industrilization of America.

I’m not sure which brands TSMC makes for. But I can promise you if there is an option to buy an USA made AMD, I’d pay a premium for that.

Re: TSMC Announces Intention to Build and Operate Advanced Semiconductor Fab in U.S.

#70

Post by remarkEon »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #69
sremani wrote: post #66

Welcome to USA. Smart Move TSMC and Taiwan. You have earned a friend for life. For the doubters, this is just the beginning of Re-industrilization of America.

I’m not sure which brands TSMC makes for. But I can promise you if there is an option to buy an USA made AMD, I’d pay a premium for that.

Same.

"Manufactured by TSMC-USA in Arizona". Super exciting to be quite honest.

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