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OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

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Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#121

Post by [deleted] »

vbtemp wrote: post #3
generalpass wrote: post #2

This was among my first thoughts when the first unemployment report came out. We are sending our daughters to OnlyFans. Still not sure where our sons end up.

Well, not to strip naked on the internet. There was a great paper that came out recently demonstrating the value of men's sexuality is negative (vs that of women). Men don't possess anything intrinsically valuable or desirable. There is no fallback. I too wonder what this will mean for (young) men, who have already been pushed down a dark path.

[deleted]

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#122

Post by remir »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #34
marpstar wrote: post #14

My opinion: Porn is the new drug. Our daughters are the dealers and our sons are the users. Sex addiction fueled by free internet porn has ruined countless lives. At least OnlyFans is behind a paywall, keeping it out of view of children.

Watching porn is healthy and normal. Like any form of entertainment it can be abused, but there isn't a moral panic about binge watching Netflix or video gaming. Like anything, it's best in moderation.

Watching porn is healthy and normal.

I'd say pornography has been normalized over time, but I'm not convinced it's inoffensive.

I won't polarize it and say it's bad. It is what it is, but I don't know if it can be categorized as healthy either.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#123

Post by seibelj »

Who would have guessed so many people on HN are against individual freedom? There is absolutely zero ethically or morally wrong with someone selling sex, or buying sex from someone else. Or maybe we should ban pop music stars from revealing too much skin in their music videos? Where do you draw the line between "This is immoral!" and "Wow, what a successful person!" Just ignore it if you don't like it. No one puts a gun to your head to pay someone for sex - so don't point your guns at them for doing so.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#124

Post by DoreenMichele »

ajconway wrote: post #118
DoreenMichele wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what message does this send to girls I think the larger problem is the degree to which men refuse to engage women in a substantive intellectual fashion. I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN. I've been here over a decade. It continues to be the case that most men don't really want to talk much with me unless they are hitting on me. This has proven to be a huge barrier to effective networking and a huge ba…

But what is the real problem that women have? Is it about the lack of fairness in the society they live in? Is it a problem world-wide?

But what is the real problem that women have?

Probably best explained here:

https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/the-gray-zone.ht...

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#125

Post by MuffinFlavored »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #32
econcon wrote: post #20

As I read some women in the article are making as much as a talented ivy league graduate who joins a tech company. It seems amoral to prevent them from making money, why don't we see it as a talent as we see "tech jobs" as talent? Can it really do more damage than what tech companies specially one who pedal ads and sell customer data and give people anxiety?

Sex work is work all the same. From a normative standpoint, we ought to support sex workers directly, rather than the studios and production companies that are often exploitative. OnlyFans seems to get rid of the middlemen in the porn / cam girl industry, I think that's a massive benefit for sex workers today.

My question to most people on this forum are: would you really be ok if your daughter was best friends with a sex worker? Everybody says "of course!" in theory... but in reality I think it falls apart. Lots of blurred moral lines.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#127

Post by mydongle »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #88
mydongle wrote: post #62

As a guy, I'm cool with this kind of stuff. But what message does this send to girls who are not considered attractive enough or just don't want to do this kind of work? The message is that all the study, work, and effort to work in a meaningful career is a freaking joke, when all it takes is to be born a certain way and make huge amounts of money selling your body. On the other hand, we have a generation of young ma…

But what message does this send to girls I think the larger problem is the degree to which men refuse to engage women in a substantive intellectual fashion. I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN. I've been here over a decade. It continues to be the case that most men don't really want to talk much with me unless they are hitting on me. This has proven to be a huge barrier to effective networking and a huge ba…

Does the normalization of women getting rich and living lavish, bourgeoise lifestyles from selling their bodies help or hurt the perception of women?

Even before OnlyFans blew up, people(both men and women) already looked down on women who did sex work for a living. What do you think happens from here when every girl and their grandmother's has an OnlyFans? That's something every guy will probably be thinking about now when they are considering a girl to date. That is now something for employers to consider when hiring a woman. I'm not saying that's okay either, by the way. I'm just suggesting that that's what will happen.

I'm not calling for a ban on sex work anyhow. Never did. I'm only voicing my concerns.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#128

Post by NoahTheDuke »

legostormtroopr wrote: post #119

More power to people selling if it works for them, I'm just concerned they aren't thinking about their futures. As crass as people will say this is, selling your body is selling access to a depreciating asset. While they might be making good money now, eventually these girls will grow up. Slowly they'll see subscribers dip, but only enough for them to think they can adjust their product. But there will always be some…

This sounds like most careers, though. Except for the sensational language, how is this different than agism in the software industry, or folks who never become managers? In my (limited) experience, most people don’t climb the ranks or get major pay increases, especially during a pandemic like this.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#129

Post by mikevm »

ajconway wrote: post #118
DoreenMichele wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what message does this send to girls I think the larger problem is the degree to which men refuse to engage women in a substantive intellectual fashion. I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN. I've been here over a decade. It continues to be the case that most men don't really want to talk much with me unless they are hitting on me. This has proven to be a huge barrier to effective networking and a huge ba…

But what is the real problem that women have? Is it about the lack of fairness in the society they live in? Is it a problem world-wide?

I don't think women have any real barrier in getting jobs nowdays, in fact, I think we are at a time where women are more advantaged than men. They graduate college in greater numbers, the dating market is easy (endless validation on dating apps and social networks), and since in general they aren't held up to the standards that men are they can play it both ways and win - either don't work hard and find a "rich" husband, or work hard and stay single while enjoying easy sex from dating apps.

A man, on the other hand, has to work hard and earn a good living, otherwise he's a "loser", he also has to have social calibration and be able to be interesting and good looking to find a decent looking woman.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#130

Post by DoreenMichele »

mkr-hn wrote: post #111
dijit wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand, I think, that life has certainly been unkind in many areas for you. I know this is going to sound mean, given your context, but that is anecdotal. I know (personally) women who have doors flung open for them for the fact that they are women. I don’t tend to agree with it, but I won’t judge those who take advantage. I know at least one person who uses her femininity very effectively to fund her passion p…

Trading personality for employing unearned traits to get through life sounds like a bad deal. I can perform masculinity to top standards and bullshit my way through life, but then I'd lose myself. I doubt it's any different for AFAB people who lucked into good looks and wished they could thrive on merit.

Thank you for commenting.

I was quite beautiful when I was younger. I was also molested and raped and told it was my fault for being too beautiful to resist.

I considered becoming a model at one time.

I also was one of the top students of my graduating class, won a National Merit Scholarship to one of the two most prestigious universities in my home state and had other academic accolades.

My beauty seems to have been more downside than up. It is actively problematic for trying to pursue a serious career that doesn't in some way trade on your sexuality.

Most very successful female singers, actors, etc are beautiful and sexy. The top paid ones don't hesitate to pose nude and trade on their sexuality.

Men don't have to trade on their sexuality to get to the top of their field and men have many fields outside of entertainment open to them where they can make good money.

In fact, it boils down to this: being successful in a career is what makes a man desirable. But a woman is asked to choose to either be serious or be desirable.

I have found my looks and gender to actively be a problem in getting good constructive feedback. I suspect this dynamic is part of why Theranos was valued at $10 billion before being uncovered as a fraud: It was led by a pretty young woman.

I suspect Theranos would have deflated as the hot air balloon it was well before it hit $10 billion in valuation if it had been led by a man.

I have zero interest in using my looks, sexuality or femininity to open doors for me because I have no desire to follow in the foot steps of Theranos. That company has already done plenty of harm to the status and perception of women.

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