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France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

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Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#11
post #9

But what in case of the abuse of the system? Administrators will end up deleting whatever is reported. Not to mention it can be used in political fight.

These laws are often not thought through to that extent. And especially not thought through for the very-long term, e.g. what effect removing potentially-offending speech may have on societies across decades

Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#12
How long until internet companies decide that relatively small and litigious markets aren't worth their time and simply ignore laws like this?

If every country with an economy the size of 1 or 2 large US states start making up their own censorship laws and trying to force companies to enforce them, at some point this causes huge inefficiencies.

I can see two end states to this:

1. If the censoring country has enough international legal influence, companies will probably have to block users from that country from using their services.

2. If the censoring country does not have enough international legal influence, the company ignores them and the government has to explicitly censor its citizens' internet connections.

I kind of prefer the second because it's more visible and dramatic - I think a lot of people probably aren't even aware when their country has censorship laws.

This also creates economic opportunities for two classes of alternative content distribution:

1. Content distribution based out of legally friendly countries, a la the Sultanate of Kinakuta. Expect to see the media start using terms styled after "tax haven", like "cybercrime haven", for countries that don't enforce US/EU censorship/copyright laws.

2. Content distribution based off of peer-to-peer networks that are harder to wage lawfare against. Bittorrent, IPFS, etc. fit the bill here.

Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#13
post #2

france is such a weird place. In some ways it's a very free society. In other ways it's not free at all. Don't most of the euro countries have weird laws about hate speech like this?

It’s simple. You’re not free to be intolerant. What is intolerant? Anything that involves biological differences that people are unable to change.

Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#14
post #2

france is such a weird place. In some ways it's a very free society. In other ways it's not free at all. Don't most of the euro countries have weird laws about hate speech like this?

It can be argued the U.S. is the “weird” country for not restricting hate speech. It’s not just the EU, most countries regulate hate speech. This is not perceived as restricting freedom, because it protects the freedoms of the group the hate speech targets (one person’s freedom ends where another’s begins).

Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#15
Who decides authoritatively what is or isn’t “hate speech” within the 24 hour period?

The conclusion TFA makes seems likely: these services will just err on the side of “delete first, ask questions later” to protect themselves from liability, making all sorts of legal expression impossible.

The current state of online publishing is really sad, and getting worse. Very few modern services used for hosting can be used to publish legal yet fringe or controversial opinions, which should terrify you even if you don’t agree with those things.

We’re moving toward a world where a dozen large companies will be the final arbiters of what can or cannot be published, regardless of what the law says. If you can’t see why that’s a grave threat to society, I question your imagination.

...and that’s just in peacetime. Imagine the special wartime requirements that will apply to these services if their hosting nations ever feel legitimately threatened.

Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#16
post #2

france is such a weird place. In some ways it's a very free society. In other ways it's not free at all. Don't most of the euro countries have weird laws about hate speech like this?

I guess it is "weird" in a sense that in various places in Europe online platforms are (and have been for long time) liable for user generated content.

E.g. if a Swiss news site has a comment section where users violate anti racism laws, the site owner can be sued since they published and didn't remove it.

Regarding free society. I think each one has its own quirks and difference where they consider someone's freedom ends. E.g. the US's handling of nudity and swear words is absolutely bizarre to me as a European and as someone from the US you might think the restriction on speech and use of symbols many places in Europe have go too far.

Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#17
post #2

france is such a weird place. In some ways it's a very free society. In other ways it's not free at all. Don't most of the euro countries have weird laws about hate speech like this?

“Weird”

I would use the word fantastic instead.

Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#19
post #15

Who decides authoritatively what is or isn’t “hate speech” within the 24 hour period? The conclusion TFA makes seems likely: these services will just err on the side of “delete first, ask questions later” to protect themselves from liability, making all sorts of legal expression impossible. The current state of online publishing is really sad, and getting worse. Very few modern services used for hosting can be used t…

Being made fun of for anything that people biologically cannot change is hate speech. It’s not some complicated quagmire of laws you are trying to make it out to be.

Re: France passes law forcing online platforms to delete hate-speech within 24 hours

#20

Good. I would much rather have a good amount of censorship then let bigots hide behind the “free speech” argument.

Who decides what needs to be censored? How do we ensure a fair process if we could be silenced for just questioning the censors?

The hate speech slope is slippery and unscrupulous politicians will always want to interfere.

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