Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#341

Post by bradlys » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #317

ghaff wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the (more or less starting) price of a high-end Herman Miller chair like an Aeron or Embody. Which is simultaneously a lot of money and a very reasonable purchase for something you spend a lot of time in if you can afford it.

I cannot recommend an Aeron chair enough. It is worth it. I'm sitting in one right now, the one I picked up for a song in 2001 after the dot com bust from (ironically enough) a liquidated startup. It has lasted me that long.

For anyone who is interested - you can regularly get these used for under $400 from a variety of used office suppliers.

For obscure chairs - you can sometimes get a roaring good deal by just setting up alerts on Craigslist. It's how we got a Hag Capisco for $350 instead of paying nearly $900 - good as new too.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#342

Post by danans » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #52

capableweb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 30s as well, partner, no kids, will only work in office. I won't consider remote anymore after two experiences with different companies (during 4+ years). Worked in office and remotely equally long in total. I never see the same productivity in myself or others when working remote compared to the office. I think it just boils down to different people have different needs and work differently. Remote works well fo…

No worries, hope it helps others makes the leap. I agree it doesn't work for everyone, but there are so many benefits for both society and workers, it should be mandated that businesses are required to accommodate it similar to what Germany is discussing [1]. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/german-labor-minister-calls-for-right-...

There are also a lot of people who like aspects of both in person office work and remote work, and would like the flexibility to plan their weeks accordingly.

I personally value the in-person collaboration at the office, but many days I don't feel like facing the rush hour - usually on the way home which is more crowded.

I'd prefer to routinely WFH in the AM after the kids start school, go into work around 11AM. have meetings and lunch with teammates, leave around 3, and then finish the day working from home. This would let me avoid rush hour while still getting in person interaction with my coworkers.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#343

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:26 PM UTC

rohansingh wrote: post #282

s0rce wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a really important point, but I think that it still doesn't counter the argument about the career downsides of being remote when you don't work for a 100% remote organization. My company is pretty flexible but as a scientist/engineer I still have some duties where being in the lab is necessary. I'll probably increase my remote work for now but likely not move further away. I enjoy my bike commute in the East…

People weight "career downsides" differently. A lot of folks who are further in their careers are done trying to climb the ladder and would be happy working remotely.

Two other cynical additions. Not everyone is as concerned about "productivity". Also, there's a nonzero chance that someone whose productivity drops dramatically when working from home were only ever productive because they were leeching productivity out of others. Every team seems to have someone like this, and they can be safely gotten rid of.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#344

Post by ghaff » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:26 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #317

ghaff wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the (more or less starting) price of a high-end Herman Miller chair like an Aeron or Embody. Which is simultaneously a lot of money and a very reasonable purchase for something you spend a lot of time in if you can afford it.

I cannot recommend an Aeron chair enough. It is worth it. I'm sitting in one right now, the one I picked up for a song in 2001 after the dot com bust from (ironically enough) a liquidated startup. It has lasted me that long.

Unfortunately my ~15-yo Aeron which was getting increasingly wobbly seems to be down for the count. I'll look into repair when I can. Fortunately I have another chair at home which is by no means an Aeron but isn't bad.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#345

Post by danans » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:27 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #303

nitrogen wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the bright side though, you can move to a location that has more space at a lower cost. As more people do so, you should also expect to see more restaurants, coffee shops, etc. open up outside of the highest density areas.

And then prices increase... and it's almost like you've just moved the problem from one area to another. I'm convinced America is just going to continue to sprawl. I don't think there will ever be a case where we'll actually increase the density of cities overall beyond that of typical SFH density. (And thus more cars, less public transit, etc.)

> And then prices increase... and it's almost like you've just moved the problem from one area to another.

Yes, making a location more desirable by increasing its amenities will raise prices. The way to counter that is to make those sorts of amenities that people desire (cafes, transit, walkability) more broadly available, not to stifle them.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#346

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:29 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #294

Consultant32452 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to keep in mind is that this is NOT what working remotely is really like. During normal times if I am missing socialization at work I can make up for it by going out more during the week. During normal times if I want I can spend a few hours working from the local cafe. But the cafes are closed. During normal times, kids are at school for most of the day so they don't disrupt you. But schools are closed. I'…

It doesn't matter if I have my laptop and a hotspot at the beach with tacos and a bucket of beers. It's an issue with a lack of effective communication on emails/slack/zoom compared with meeting with your colleagues face to face. Productivity has fallen off a cliff among everyone I've asked, and this is the reason.

Were these people with "person" jobs or "thing" jobs? Person jobs are sales, marketing, maybe even business analyst, etc. Thing jobs are coders, DBAs, accountants, etc. I find it very easy to believe that people whose job primarily revolves around other people will have serious productivity issues remotely. It's harder to comprehend that jobs around code/numbers/widgets have the same problem. I'm not saying it's impossible, just harder to understand.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#347

Post by oldsklgdfth » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

np- wrote: post #340

oldsklgdfth wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of a paycut is acceptable for a given drop in COL? Ex. SF to Dayton, OH: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+compari... If your bills were cut in half, what percentage pay cut would you accept?

It doesn't scale as simply as that. Imagine you were making $100k with $60k in expenses in the Bay Area. That means your discretionary income is $40k. Then you move to Ohio and make $50k with $20k in expenses. That's $30k in discretionary income. So, even though the Bay Area is 3x more expensive, and you're only earning 2x the salary, you're still taking more money home at the end of the year by accepting the job in…

> It doesn't scale as simply as that.

My question fails at the lower end. I was imagining 200-300k Bay area salaries. Is that reasonable?

It seems like if you want to move to a low cost area, there is a salary that is smaller but provides you the same discretionary income.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#348

Post by ghaff » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #346

asdff wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if I have my laptop and a hotspot at the beach with tacos and a bucket of beers. It's an issue with a lack of effective communication on emails/slack/zoom compared with meeting with your colleagues face to face. Productivity has fallen off a cliff among everyone I've asked, and this is the reason.

Were these people with "person" jobs or "thing" jobs? Person jobs are sales, marketing, maybe even business analyst, etc. Thing jobs are coders, DBAs, accountants, etc. I find it very easy to believe that people whose job primarily revolves around other people will have serious productivity issues remotely. It's harder to comprehend that jobs around code/numbers/widgets have the same problem. I'm not saying it's impo…

Most of the marketing teams I work with were pretty distributed anyway. Direct sales does a lot of F2F normally but many/most don't have company offices. And there are Thing jobs that involve, e.g., working with hardware that can't really be done remotely.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#349

Post by kube-system » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

betaby wrote: post #331

sigfubar wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such folks normally designate one property as their "primary residence", commonly defined as a place where one sleeps 183 nights out of the year. That's where one pays local taxes.

So it's somewhat possible. Interesting what to do if one have three properties and you 'sleep' in them 1/3 of the year. More complex question about 'digital nomads'. I personally live in one place for many years already. But I'm curious what people do in more dynamic housing situations.

> So it's somewhat possible.

It's definitely not possible to have a mail forwarding box as your primary residence.

> But I'm curious what people do in more dynamic housing situations.

In situations where a primary address is ambiguous based on number of nights, many tax authorities will consider other aspects, such as the address you have listed on government documents, where your family lives, whether you use any of the properties for income or pleasure, where you work, etc.

Also, if you change primary residences, many tax authorities will simply pro-rate your taxes for the period of time that you lived there.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#350

Post by neutronicus » Thu, May 14, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #263

neutronicus wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which they will find, for the same price, out in the sticks when they don't need to drive in.

Many people don't want to live in the sticks, they have a preference for where they already live.

Then they can enjoy their newly-lower rent.