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A first look at Unreal Engine 5

unrealengine.com

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Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of that is that the UI and control system has standardized on a mostly similar set of features with somewhat standardized mechanics. They've iterated over the last twenty years towards what is likely the peak (or at least a local maxima) of what you can do with a mouse/keyboard or controller (and controllers are generally normalizing as well, except for small differentiators). I.e. there's only so much c…

I guess I just feel there is a real lack of creativity in gaming these days- There used to be a rich variety of games- puzzle/adventure games, RTSes, Simulation games, Flight/Space games of all kinds, and now its just kind of condensed down to FPSes, repeated sports franchises, and a few outliers- KSP, Minecraft, to name a few. Interestingly, I won an Occulus Go at a meetup about 9 months ago. I almost gave it away,…

> My biggest gripe is that the games are all kind of vapid and on rails, there are no games where you can kind of go and explore

Some titles on the Quest are a bit better in that respect, but you still have to research the game to know. I think that's also a factor of how new the space is. It's much harder to allow users to roam where they want and still have the polish allowing them to interact how they want with the environment, it took quite a few years for that to happen in the traditional game space, both because of the effort required to craft that world, and because the engines were still working on abstractions that made it easy to fill those worlds with things that could be interacted with without too much programmer/artist work.

A good example of this is all the ways people have found for break Half-Life Alyx by working around the game expectations. People have found a way to hoard items, which would normally be hard to do because you have to actually hold them, but throwing them in buckets and bringing the bucket with you (for example, hauling around a bucket with 20 grenades in it, when normally you don't have a way to carry them all). If you put too many items in a bucket and pick it up, the physics system slows to a crawl and can crash the came. They designed the game so there weren't too many interactable objects in any one scene (because that makes sense), but the wholly new paradigm means that people were able to easily do crazy stuff to break it.

I've been meaning to pick up Arizona Sunshine for Quest, and that might be along the lines of what you're looking for (but not for Go). The Walking dead game is supposed to come to Quest eventually to (but again, the Go is unlikely), and the reviews of that looks pretty open for movement and exploration.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#682
post #654

This is stunning, but scary. Even if my descendants survive plagues, nuclear war, climate change and malevolent AI's, they might not have a chance against the allure of these simulated worlds.

We've had super fun & addicting games for quite a while now, and, though gaming is not a niche interest anymore, a good chunk of the population prefers to do other things, like watch TV. If anything, the fear of alluring entertainment sapping people's will to do other things is borne out with television. The average American watches something like 5 hours of TV a day. That's just incredible. In my mind, switching fro…

I believe the amount of time adults spend on video games has been growing fairly fast relationship to tv. At least for younger men.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FF 7 remake comes extremely close though. That's the best looking UE4 game I know. It's expected that real games do not have demo levels of visual fidelity.

I will say its Gears 5. Coalition has been incredible with their usage of Unreal since the original Gears of War back in Xbox360 days. They peaked with Gears 5.

The original Gears was developed by Epic and was a very good showcase (and probably a driver and validator as well) for the Unreal Engine tech Epic developed in parallel.

They describe how this is still their dynamic when they mention their goal to have Fortnite running on UE5 before they consider it ready for the masses.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following this comment. Is it because the intersectionality of players includes lower-income people, children, and those struggling with addiction?

I'm not following your response. My comment was in relation to a highly engaged, key target demographic audience who have an Epic account and they've just handed indie devs around the world much easier access to that audience. No idea what point you're making, though it seems loaded against Fortnite?

I can see the platform being a shared space between developers as a great benefit to indies.

I wouldn't describe Fortnite players as engaged any more than I would describe a gambling den habitant as engaged. In this case the latter is less predatory. It's my prerogative that any time Fortnite is mentioned, it should be reminded that while it is a great profit model, it is also a depressing moral failure.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#685
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember the PS1 dinosaur demo? Yeah the whole industry is famous for this. Games are more than tech demos.

Look up E3 game demo's and their launched comparison on YouTube. You'll learn all the game trailers with 'real game play footage' are all fake. The whole industry is filled this.

A classic: https://youtu.be/4KxRp8jeliQ

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following your response. My comment was in relation to a highly engaged, key target demographic audience who have an Epic account and they've just handed indie devs around the world much easier access to that audience. No idea what point you're making, though it seems loaded against Fortnite?

I can see the platform being a shared space between developers as a great benefit to indies. I wouldn't describe Fortnite players as engaged any more than I would describe a gambling den habitant as engaged. In this case the latter is less predatory. It's my prerogative that any time Fortnite is mentioned, it should be reminded that while it is a great profit model, it is also a depressing moral failure.

My confusion stemmed from this stigma and why, specifically, Fortnite players are an interesting audience to indies.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The graphics look good because of two things: Quixel and global illumination. Quixel is Swedish company that Epic acquired in 2019. Quixel does high-resolution scans of actual physical objects(photogrammetry) and makes them available as textures in Unreal Engine. The sheer rock faces that you see in the demo are Quixel megascans of actual rocks. The other thing that makes the graphics look impressive is global illumi…

What makes this stuff possible now though? New global illumination algorithms? Better scanning techniques? Or mostly better hardware? I don't know how it compares to other games to be honest. If it's a big jump though, I'd be interested to know what's being done different and why it's being done now.

The big thing people keep not understanding is how big a deal the the PS5's SSD infrastructure is. This engine is based around the idea of being able to grab (very large) assets from the disk only milliseconds before they're needed. In current video games designed to be playable with a HDD (spinning disk drive), they need to make sure that if it's possible for a player to look at an asset in the next 30 seconds, it needs to be already loaded in to the VRAM (the ram of the video card).

The PS5 (and XSX, to a lesser degree) put a ton of work into making is so that data can be moved from storage on the disk into the GPU as fast as possible. It does this through having shared ram between the CPU and GPU, having a fast interconnect and having dedicated hardware so that data from the SSD can be decompressed without ever going through the CPU.

On a PC with PCIe 4.0, you can basically move the same amount of textures to the GPU in the same amount of time as these new consoles, but there's going to be way more latency because data has to first be loaded into the CPU's RAM, then decompressed by the CPU then go through a bumch of software layers to ensure compatibility and sent through the motherboard to the GPU's VRAM and only then can the GPU use the texture to draw something on screen.

The PS5 and XSX built a highway between the storage and GPU that doesn't need the CPU, or compatibility software to be involved at all. That opens the door to a ton of new graphical techniques that used to just not be possible because of VRAM limitations.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that it's an async compute task, which could potentially miss a frame and show old data (instead of the whole frame missing vsync). Also this demo is supposed to be running on a PS5 devkit, which means that you'd need a devkit to run it, which means that you'd need to sign NDAs and join their developer programs and whatnot. Having worked with current gen consoles (meaning I can't go into any amount of d…

The link I shared wasn't UE5, and their other videos specifically indicate that they are running on PC - unbelievably modest PC hardware at that. > it's not a trivial thing to get a demo like this running well on PCs This old tired argument. The current theory for how the meshing is done is something similar to mesh shaders (available on commodity PC hardware since 2018)[1]. This "PS5 platform specific feature" runni…

I work in AAA. I'm talking lower level things like picking which "type" of GPU memory to allocate, access to specific registers in shaders, etc. PC didn't have real async compute capabilities until DX12, for example.

On the CPU side yeah it's 100% just a normal computer but nothing will be interrupting your threads. I think Windows 10 tries to do in it's new game mode too.

Sorry for assuming the link was the PS5 one. I have a UDN account and their login setup sometimes just dumps me to their homepage, so I made the assumption that it was the same video that I had seen everywhere else.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link I shared wasn't UE5, and their other videos specifically indicate that they are running on PC - unbelievably modest PC hardware at that. > it's not a trivial thing to get a demo like this running well on PCs This old tired argument. The current theory for how the meshing is done is something similar to mesh shaders (available on commodity PC hardware since 2018)[1]. This "PS5 platform specific feature" runni…

I work in AAA. I'm talking lower level things like picking which "type" of GPU memory to allocate, access to specific registers in shaders, etc. PC didn't have real async compute capabilities until DX12, for example. On the CPU side yeah it's 100% just a normal computer but nothing will be interrupting your threads. I think Windows 10 tries to do in it's new game mode too. Sorry for assuming the link was the PS5 one.…

> PC didn't have real async compute capabilities until DX12

Indeed it didn't, and DX12 is extremely old tech. Consoles don't have async compute right now. (Edit: apart from the PS3).

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#690
post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That video's amazing because the part of the UE5 demo I can't wrap my head around is where Nanite magically turns 1 billion triangles of source art to 20 million triangles of rendered art, per frame. And then I get a minute into the UE3 video from 2004 and what do I hear? "The scene you're seeing here is about 1 million polygons of in-game assets, which came from about 200 million polygons of source art." Then, deja…

> And then I get a minute into the UE3 video from 2004 and what do I hear? "The scene you're seeing here is about 1 million polygons of in-game assets, which came from about 200 million polygons of source art." I know little about game development so might be wrong, but I think what that 2004 demo means is they had a 200M art asset geometry which was pre-rendered/transformed into a 1M in-game asset. This kind of redu…

+1 I also think they have multiple levels of detail and render the appropriate one based on distance/view. Should have said so though, as is, it's full of misleading statements (often by omission).
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