Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data • Hacker News Board

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#261

Post by judge2020 » Thu, May 14, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

zajio1am wrote: post #248

kitotik wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But most ISPs will have DNS lookup records. Most users aren’t savvy enough to set their own DNS servers. I’m not sure on the current status of DNS over HTTPS, but I’d imagine .gov could just compel cloudflare or whoever to provide logs.

Do ISPs generally have DNS lookup past records? That seems like something that would be costly with little benefit. I run small ISP and only enable DNS logging when tracing some problem.

Apparently AT&T charges to prevent them from selling your data[0], which almost certainly is DNS data and maybe SNI.

0: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/atts-...

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#262

Post by bigbob2 » Thu, May 14, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

skuhn wrote: post #192

gkoberger wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his "incompetence at politicking" is what draws a lot of people to him (since he comes off as much more genuine and real), however it's a "live by the sword, die by the sword" situation. There have been a frustrating number of times where I felt a simple tweet could have saved a lot of bad optics.

It is part of his appeal, and I like a lot of what Bernie has to say. But you can't win if you don't play the game and politics is definitely a game. Hillary and Biden snaring the nomination ahead of Bernie show how thoroughly the establishment Democrats can school him on politics. His appeal to certain voters is great, but he still has to play the game to some degree. It's not remotely a coincidence that all of thos…

> Hillary and Biden snaring the nomination ahead of Bernie show how thoroughly the establishment Democrats can school him on politics. His appeal to certain voters is great, but he still has to play the game to some degree.

That is not hard when they benefit from a multiple year media blackout against Bernie. Playing the game sounds a lot like compromising on values; something which would have also led to voters losing interest. I would argue he did play the game, and that's why he lost. He did not try to draw enough distinctions between himself and Biden for fear of hurting the Democrats, and in the process missed many opportunities to call Biden out on his inconsistencies.

> Failing to even get Warren to endorse him isn't a failure of his ideology, it's a case of political incompetence.

Failing to get Warren to endorse him is not a case of political incompetence, but rather desire to gain more power by Warren. The political machine built by the establishment Democrats was always going to be put to work against a candidate like Bernie, or if you prefer, to "facilitate the gatekeepers."

> I hope someone (Warren? others?) echoes a lot of what he has to say and then actually executes within the political system we have today to accomplish those things.

Warren already executed exactly what she wanted to execute within the political system; to ensure the gatekeepers maintain order. She will be rewarded accordingly, probably with a cabinet position, if Biden somehow manages to win the Presidency.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#263

Post by pmorici » Thu, May 14, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

0xDEADBEF wrote: post #181

pmorici wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it just puts your VPN provider in the position your ISP was in assuming they both keep similar records.

Well in that case, I would be OK since the VPN I use (ProtonVPN) doesn't keep any logs.

Sure, until they get a government order compelling them to do so. Don't confuse something that is not done by choice with something that is not done because it is not possible.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#264

Post by bryanrasmussen » Thu, May 14, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

normally narrowly rejects is a construction used to indicate something bad was going to be done, so narrowly rejecting it is still bad, which I mean I guess this was still bad but not because the rejection was narrow.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#265

Post by danShumway » Thu, May 14, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #126

Melting_Harps wrote: post #86

Short term solution: Well VPNs for all, Ghostery [1] was running a deal on their paid version with a VPN built into their add-on [1]. Long term: The State is making their panopticon ambitions overt now in the public eye, thus spurring on the need to re-design the Internet entirely to avoid this. Anyone know what Starlink is offering in terms of privacy? Details are sparse for the most part right now, but given their…

Most traffic is over HTTPS, so VPNs aren't as useful as they once were. The advice of "don't go to your bank's website on coffee shop wifi" is 10-15 years out-of-date. Yes, HTTPS has some holes, but HSTS and certificate pinning help. If you're this level of worried, you should make sure you're either signed out go Google/Gmail or have your search history turned off. A VPN offers zero added protection. there. IIRC, Go…

> Most traffic is over HTTPS, so VPNs aren't as useful as they once were.

Meanwhile, on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23164887

A lot of traffic is over HTTPS, and that does help a lot. But a lot of that traffic isn't doing an adequate job of protecting the domain names, there are general attacks around page size that can be used to identify static resources, and people underestimate the vocal subgroups of developers that refuse to use HTTPS in the first place.

Encrypting DNS is a good reason to use a VPN. DNS over HTTPS theoretically solves those problems, but last time I checked unless you configure it right it would fall back to normal DNS whenever it couldn't find a domain, and that still doesn't solve the problem that SNI isn't universally adopted yet.

> If you're this level of worried, you should make sure you're either signed out go Google/Gmail or have your search history turned off.

Strongly agreed. For most people, using Firefox containers and/or uMatrix would result in a bigger privacy gain than a VPN. That's not to say a VPN wouldn't help on top of that, but if you're using a VPN and not using uMatrix to block cross-site cookies from sites like Google, your priorities are probably wrong.

Have you disabled Chrome sync for your browsing history? You should be worried about stuff like that long before you consider either subscribing to or running your own VPN.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#266

Post by Rafuino » Thu, May 14, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #10

PopVox record for the bill which was to be amended[1] Congress.gov article for the same bill[2] I'm thoroughly confused about the current process. It looks like HR6172 is the House "version" of the extension on the "USA FREEDOM Act" thru 2023 and S3421[3] is the Senate attempt to do the same. I can't find any references on Congress.gov which references Ron Wyden's proposed amendment. [1] https://www.popvox.com/us/fed…

If the Senate has amended the House bill, it will have to go back to the House (or a conference committee) to hammer out a unified version, which then needs to be voted on again and passed by both sides. This isn't a done deal (yet).

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#267

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, May 14, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

WilliamEdward wrote: post #227

Spooky23 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where is Bernie Sanders? It passed by one vote. He missed it.

It's a pandemic, and as far as i remember they didn't finalise a rule to allow senators to vote remotely[1]. I don't know if this is why Bernie missed it, but 3 other senators besides him missed it too. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2020/05/12/congress-...

That's very sad. One of the other absent Senators is in quarantine. The other 97 Senators seemed to have found a way to get there.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#268

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin » Thu, May 14, 2020, 3:15 PM UTC

toofy wrote: post #79

kitotik wrote: post #19

Once again the lack of media coverage on this is appalling. Rand Paul has introduced an amendment that goes up for vote tomorrow that would disallow this surveillance on American citizens, which of course is not expected to pass. McConnell is drafting language to prevent this from being used on “federal election candidates” which of course is expected to pass.

> McConnell is drafting language to prevent this from being used on “federal election candidates” which of course is expected to pass. So privacy for those in positions of power but not for us plebes.

"Do as I say, not as I do." - I've literally heard these words from the mouth of a LEO before.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#269

Post by analognoise » Thu, May 14, 2020, 3:16 PM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #124

giancarlostoro wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can even make a political party out of it where everyone in the party is a candidate.

This has a very Slack vibe to it that I can dig.

No love for the Church of the SubGenious?

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#270

Post by skuhn » Thu, May 14, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

bigbob2 wrote: post #262

skuhn wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is part of his appeal, and I like a lot of what Bernie has to say. But you can't win if you don't play the game and politics is definitely a game. Hillary and Biden snaring the nomination ahead of Bernie show how thoroughly the establishment Democrats can school him on politics. His appeal to certain voters is great, but he still has to play the game to some degree. It's not remotely a coincidence that all of thos…

> Hillary and Biden snaring the nomination ahead of Bernie show how thoroughly the establishment Democrats can school him on politics. His appeal to certain voters is great, but he still has to play the game to some degree. That is not hard when they benefit from a multiple year media blackout against Bernie. Playing the game sounds a lot like compromising on values; something which would have also led to voters losi…

All I have to add is this:

If Bernie can't "compromise his values" enough to make political deals to get the nomination, then he would be completely ineffective as president -- where getting your policy enacted requires constant deal making with Congress.