Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

cs.cmu.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 106 posts

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#71

Post by kyawzazaw »

throwlaplace wrote: post #46
usmannk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is extremely helpful to me right now and I'm sure may be to many others as well. Thanks for writing it. If I may, how did you prep for those chats? What did you .. say when you got there? Read some of their papers and bring followups to their conclusions? For anyone else reading, I want to echo the sentiment here 100x. I'm currently working closely on a research project with a CS prof who is one of the m…

>If I may, how did you prep for those chats? What did you .. say when you got there? Read some of their papers and bring followups to their conclusions? like I said the way to approach this is to try to identify with the person you're pitching to and address their needs/goals. The most obvious thing is to familiarize yourself with their research because they have research goals. But honestly you don't need to go over…

how does an undergrad know about this? such as funding potential or even being able to read a leading research paper and have substantial comments?

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#72

Post by knzhou »

leemailll wrote: post #70

For any one want to apply for grad school, I suggest visit phdcomics.com, and try to read at least top 100 there. It will bring some laugh, but I want to emphasize one thing: those jokes are real for many in grad school.

I laughed at PhD comics back in undergrad, but now as a PhD student it feels wrong to read. A lot like Lego Grad Student.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#73

Post by gautamcgoel »

vzuvz wrote: post #66

In case there are any CS PhD students at top colleges in the US reading this, I'd appreciate some advice: I am currently applying for a PhD in Germany (RWTH), and although I am excited about that place, I think I'd rather do a PhD in a top US School (for a couple of reasons that I won't detail here). The thing is that admissions for US schools do not seem to start before September, and in case I get accepted in Germa…

I'm a PhD student in CS at Caltech. The single biggest factor that determines whether you will get in is whether a well-known researcher writes a strong recommendation for you. I expect that it will be difficult to make the case to accept someone from a virtually unknown program like the University of Chile when there are so many qualified applicants from top American schools. Just to be clear, I'm not saying you are unqualified, only that you will have to compete with "safer bets" who look stronger on paper.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#74

Post by barry-cotter »

ImprobableTruth wrote: post #40
supernova87a wrote: post #25

> "...You need to know why you want a Ph.D. You need to have vision and ideas and you need to be able to express yourself..." I've got to stress that this advice is really important. Especially for people who are considering going into grad school because they're on autopilot or think that it's just a natural continuation of your schooling. That's an easy way to think, but it's not the right way. You can easily lose…

What would you do to get a good idea? I have an area I'm really interested in, but it just seems like any ideas I have could have the potential to be a dud. Coming up with an idea that you'd be willing to commit several years to just seems incredibly hard. I'd imagine that working at a real company isn't really the best occupation and place to generate new ideas unless what you're interested in is more practical. It…

> I have an area I'm really interested in, but it just seems like any ideas I have could have the potential to be a dud.

Yes, that’s research. Sometimes you try to do something only to discover either that you can’t do it or that it can’t be done.

To get a good idea you learn and work on bad ideas. Doing a thesis is closer to doing real research than what you’ve done before, more than likely. Rather than doing another Bachelor’s consider doing another Master’s or getting a job as a research assistant.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#75

Post by twblalock »

fooker wrote: post #61
twblalock wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 years of a grad student salary is a big financial sacrifice compared to 6 years of a software industry salary, even at non-Silicon-Valley salary levels. The opportunity cost of a PhD can be pretty high. In CS you could theoretically make back a lot of that money with a higher salary after graduation if you then enter industry, but the gap in lifetime earnings up until that point is huge.

Eh, not everything has to measured by how much money you accumulated.

That's not the point.

Let's say you spend 6 years in grad school on a stipend of $35k per year. You think you are being paid to get a PhD, but that's just because you are ignoring opportunity cost.

If you took your talents to industry instead, let's estimate an entry-level salary. I will intentionally make it lower than average. Let's say $100k per year, which is on the low end in Silicon Valley for an entry-level engineer, and let's also make the ridiculous assumption that such an engineer would not get a raise for the entire 6-year period.

After 6 years, the hypothetical grad student was paid $210k total, and the hypothetical entry-level engineer was paid $600k total. The PhD cost $600k - $210k = $390k. Would you pay $390k for a PhD?

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#76

Post by awelkie »

I have the impression that CS PhD programs are more competitive than they have ever been, by a large margin, at least in the US. My pet theory on this is that US CS PhD students are exposed to globalization in a big way. If you look at figure D2 in the 2018 Taulbee Survey by the Computing Research Association [0], you can see that nonresident aliens as a fraction of enrollments in US and Canadian CS PhD programs rose from around 40% in the mid ninties to 64% in 2015, 2016, and 2017.

On the one hand I think it's great that the US and Canada continue to attract research talent from around the world. But on the other hand I suspect that the increased competitiveness has changed the nature of the PhD program in computer science. I think that professors these days have so many options for grad students that they can choose students with specialized experience in their research field, which means that any "exploratory" phase of the PhD process has shrunk significantly. In the article, the author says that CMU expects students to choose an advisor within a month or two of starting the program, and I guess that in reality most students have applied to work with a specific advisor before stepping foot on campus. I wonder has it always been the case? Can anyone - maybe someone who did a PhD at CMU or elsewhere more than a decade ago - shed any light here?

Of course the increased competitiveness of US CS PhD programs is just conjecture on my part. It could be that the increase in nonresident alien enrollment just means that many US and Canadian citizens are not interested in a CS PhD these days, and that the PhD programs haven't really changed, which also sounds plausible. From my experience during my short PhD attempt, the amount of time spent studying (classes, reading papers, etc) versus simply working for an advisor was smaller than I expected, and I don't know if that's because of a real change in the PhD process or simply my own naïveté.

[0]: https://cra.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2018_Taulbee_Surv...

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#77

Post by rapjr9 »

anjc wrote: post #42
supernova87a wrote: post #25

> "...You need to know why you want a Ph.D. You need to have vision and ideas and you need to be able to express yourself..." I've got to stress that this advice is really important. Especially for people who are considering going into grad school because they're on autopilot or think that it's just a natural continuation of your schooling. That's an easy way to think, but it's not the right way. You can easily lose…

> Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. I don't think many supervisors will let you do this. 1) you'll need to find someone who has funding and already works in the area of your good idea 2) people overestimate how much they can do during a PhD 3) you probably aren't aware of the field coming out of undergrad 4) not a lot of theses…

I second this. I worked for several professors over 20 years as a software programmer at an ivy league college, mostly working alongside grad students. The grad students had to fight to get to work on their own projects or do them in secret. Collaborating with someone without getting the approval of your advisor was often considered a betrayal and would get shut down as soon as discovered. If you weren't interested in the advisors projects they would not take you on. Post docs were treated even worse. This isn't true of all advisors, but many of them are like this because they are trying to build their own reputations using your work (their name goes on all your papers). If you really want to work on your own thing be up front about it; otherwise you'll spend the entire time doing things you're not interested in and which will define the kinds of jobs you can get afterwards.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#78

Post by ackbar03 »

papeda wrote: post #41

For anybody interested in the computer science PhD process, a good complement to the featured article is Philip Guo's "The PhD Grind" [1]. It's a long (115p, but with big text) blow-by-blow account of the author's PhD at Stanford in the late 00s. It's neither sensationalized nor sanitized, and it's weirdly engrossing for an account of PhD research. I read it before starting grad school and I think it helped my "meta"…

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm currently doing a PhD and spent a few years in the corporate world.

I've only read a fifth of it (the downfall) and I feel like some of his not so good experiences could actually be easily avoided by anyone with some work experience. Im already accustomed to knowing that half of the time the leader/professor might not actually know what he's doing or get you to do something that's obviously not gonna work because what the hell why not. Usually I just do enough to keep him happy but not get too emotionally invested, like I don't intentionally muck it but I don't get so committed that I feel depressed.

I'm almost done with my first year and I was pretty much aware that I wouldn't be able to do any decent research so I just tried to get as much of my coursework out of the way as possible

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#79

Post by 2sk21 »

twblalock wrote: post #32
scottishcow wrote: post #16

> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time. Is it? Some of my friends went on to start successful companies after getting their PhDs. I'm a bit envious of them actually, I didn't have that option as my research was on an obscure topic with zero commercial potential. > The Ph.D. is a tremendous opportunity. You get to pick an advisor in any res…

6 years of a grad student salary is a big financial sacrifice compared to 6 years of a software industry salary, even at non-Silicon-Valley salary levels. The opportunity cost of a PhD can be pretty high. In CS you could theoretically make back a lot of that money with a higher salary after graduation if you then enter industry, but the gap in lifetime earnings up until that point is huge.

And you get a high salary, post PhD only if you are in some hot field. I got one the earliest PhD's in neural networks - but this was in 1992, long before the world discovered machine learning. It took a while for my salary to catch up, although I can't complain, the last decade has been good.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#80

Post by plopilop »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #44
Cyph0n wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. As you noted, you don’t have much to lose by giving it a try, and you can always drop out and get the MS (like I did).

Not much to lose... except four to six years of your life. If you think of your working life, which has maybe 45 years, four to six years is a fairly major cost. That's a fairly high cost even if it's fun . It still may be worth doing, and the fun may tip the scales, but... "don't have much to lose" is I think inaccurate.

I'm curious, how does it work in the US?

In Europe, you first study 3 years to get a bachelor's degree, then 2 more years for a master's degree (or an engineer degree), then you apply for a PhD which is supposed to last 3 years.

In natural sciences they do last 3 years in general, in human sciences they are usually quite longer.

Post reply on HN