Live data from Hacker News

Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

techcrunch.com

41–50 of 293 posts

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how this is consistent with his political alignment? Because Bernie Sanders (regardless of how you feel about him) has voted consistently against increasing the surveillance state. Hence why his vote wouldn't have mattered, because it would've been a NAY vote and NAY votes don't have any affirmative power.

The vote is on a plan to REQUIRE a warrant. If he'd voted, he would have voted YEA , to pass this bill requiring a warrant, because he does not want to increase the surveillance state (on that we agree!) It's "yea" for requiring warrants, and "nay" for warrantless surveillance (which is somehow the law of the land now? When did I miss this??)

Actually, this is an amendment on a bill to reauthorize expired warrantless surveillance programs, so a yes vote is a vote to make warrants for certain searches a condition for reauthorize broad authority for warrantless dragnet surveillance.

I suspect Bernie's abstention is because he thinks reauthorization is equally unacceptable with or without the condition.

Procedurally, he could vote yes on the amendment and still vote on the bill, and there's an argument that not doing so is making the perfect the enemy of the good (or at least the barely decent the enemy of the mildly less oppressive of two oppressive options), but it's kind of hard for me to get mad at Sanders for not collaborating in putting lipstick on this particular totalitarian pig of law. One can maybe rationalize the USA Patriot Act in the context of it's time, it's much harder to rationalize the USA Freedom Act’s deliberate after-the-fact authorization of much of the illegal blanket surveillance that went beyond what the original Patriot Act authorized, and it's far harder to rationalize the current reauthorization of the combination, with or without minor tweaks.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how this is consistent with his political alignment? Because Bernie Sanders (regardless of how you feel about him) has voted consistently against increasing the surveillance state. Hence why his vote wouldn't have mattered, because it would've been a NAY vote and NAY votes don't have any affirmative power.

The vote is on a plan to REQUIRE a warrant. If he'd voted, he would have voted YEA , to pass this bill requiring a warrant, because he does not want to increase the surveillance state (on that we agree!) It's "yea" for requiring warrants, and "nay" for warrantless surveillance (which is somehow the law of the land now? When did I miss this??)

See my other response. This makes a lot more sense when you consider this to be a reaction to a separate amendment to the Patriot Act which is meant to explicitly authorize warrentless surveillance of a user's internet history.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#43
post #38
post #19

Once again the lack of media coverage on this is appalling. Rand Paul has introduced an amendment that goes up for vote tomorrow that would disallow this surveillance on American citizens, which of course is not expected to pass. McConnell is drafting language to prevent this from being used on “federal election candidates” which of course is expected to pass.

Wait, so it could be used to surveil state candidates Willy nilly? No warrant required?

As it is right now, it would allow access to the internet search and browser history of anyone in the world, without probable cause or a warrant.

But to be clear, this is just a reduction in friction of the previous process which was to just call a judge of a secret FISA court which no one is really allowed to know the details of.

So this is likely just a move to reduce some red tape, and increase data ingress.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#44
post #26

I wonder how broadly they define “internet browsing and search history”. I’m assuming email is somehow included. I wonder if mobile app data falls under the umbrella.

I imagine the intelligence community would try to interpret it as narrowly as possible, ie just the literal URLs you visited and terms you sent to Google.

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic...

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#45

Doesn't it have to go back to the House anyway? Am I missing something? I thought that bills needed to pass in both the House and Senate before they can be signed into law? Now in the House they'll have an opportunity to reject the bill with McConnell's original amendment, which is obviously dispicable. This all seems like political theater, like Senator Schumer allowed a vote on this today knowing Sanders would be o…

I read it was merely a replacement of something already in, and thus does not need to be returned to the house.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#46
post #19

Once again the lack of media coverage on this is appalling. Rand Paul has introduced an amendment that goes up for vote tomorrow that would disallow this surveillance on American citizens, which of course is not expected to pass. McConnell is drafting language to prevent this from being used on “federal election candidates” which of course is expected to pass.

Would this mean that applying for a federal election is a free pass out of warrant less surveillance?

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#47
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bernie decided to just not vote even though his vote would have changed the outcome.

I suspect it's because Bernie opposes 215 renewal with or without the amendment.

I doubt this. It makes no sense to not vote for the amendment irrespective of your vote for the larger bill. In other words, Sanders could vote yes on the amendment and no on the bill.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#48

Doesn't it have to go back to the House anyway? Am I missing something? I thought that bills needed to pass in both the House and Senate before they can be signed into law? Now in the House they'll have an opportunity to reject the bill with McConnell's original amendment, which is obviously dispicable. This all seems like political theater, like Senator Schumer allowed a vote on this today knowing Sanders would be o…

I read it was merely a replacement of something already in, and thus does not need to be returned to the house.

The House has already passed the surveillance renewal bill, so unless the Senate passes the House bill with at least one amendment (so it's not technically the same bill), it doesn't have to go back to the House.

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#49
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president must be at least planning on obstructing the bill, since the only reason they'd need 60 votes would be to overcome a veto. If we treat the absences as very wimpy nay votes, and lump the 2 independents in with the party they caucus with (both Democrat), then the party breakdown looks like this: Democrats: 35 yea, 12 nay, so ~75% in favor. Republicans, 24 yea, 29 nay, so ~45% in favor. The 59 yea votes co…

Unless I’m mistaken, you’d need 66 votes to override a veto - the number 60 is for overriding a filibuster

[deleted]

Re: Senate narrowly rejects plan to require a warrant for Americans’ browsing data

#50
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if the Bernie voted “yes” (which is consistent with his usual political alignment), then the amendemnt would have passed, right? If yes, then how do you derive “his vote wouldn’t have mattered” from this?

My take is a little more nuanced. I believe this still needs to get approved back in the House. If this amendment had passed, the Patriot act renewal would have been more palatable when it gets there, and moderate democrats would have had a much harder time rejecting the bill there. I just can't imagine how the house could possibly pass the legislation that the Senate just approved. In this context, it wasn't as crit…

The Patriot Act is getting renewed in the House with or without this amendment.
Post reply on HN