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Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

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Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#231

Post by whatok »

richrichardsson wrote: post #225
renaudg wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cannot turn around updates at the drop of a dime when Apple decides to give them little notice Which audio software developers are you talking about ? The ones that are given a chance in June each year to preview the latest OS like all other devs, but decide to turn a blind eye while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer ? And then, when asked in September if they're gonna be ready…

> extremely small teams Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe? Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that still have to be creating new software if they want income. Having to divert their energy to fixing something that Apple decided to break hurts their bottom line. Regardless of if you think your position is correct, pro-audio users are starting to get tired of Apple…

Even a larger company like Ableton is not supporting the previous version of Live in Catalina and won't release any updates for it:

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235803

The grandparent suggests that conservative users are to blame on this and that's partially true but it's not out of irrationality. If you are charging by the hour, you cannot afford any downtime. Studios run extremely lean teams and don't necessarily have a tech person on hand to fix things. If they find a configuration that works, they're going to stick to it.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#232

Post by fulldecent2 »

jasode wrote: post #2

I own Apple Logic and thus I'm grateful for the continuous updates. On the other hand, I'm mystified why Apple continues its investment in this audio program. Yes, when Steve Jobs bought Logic from Emagic in 2002, it made strategic sense to fortify Apple's "software portfolio" to make Mac hardware more attractive. But that was before the surprising massive success of iPhones in 2007. Now, it seems like sales of Logic…

Aperture did not have a monthly subscription that's why it was dropped.

Photos has a monthly subscription and Music has one, that's why those were kept.

News has a subscription.

They are working on Chess and Dictionary to get subscriptions too. But if you open the about menu, you'll see these have been updated in 15+ years, so it has not been much of a cost to maintain those.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#233

Post by newdoctrine »

jasode wrote: post #2

I own Apple Logic and thus I'm grateful for the continuous updates. On the other hand, I'm mystified why Apple continues its investment in this audio program. Yes, when Steve Jobs bought Logic from Emagic in 2002, it made strategic sense to fortify Apple's "software portfolio" to make Mac hardware more attractive. But that was before the surprising massive success of iPhones in 2007. Now, it seems like sales of Logic…

Apple doesn’t sell a service for 10.99/month to look at the photos you and others edited. They sell a service for you to listen to the music you made on software you already paid to license. Logic is also used as a front end like abelton/fl studio before a finishing software like protools is used for mixing in final workflows in my experience. Major label recordings are filled with sounds made in logic, sequenced in abelton, mixed in protools then finished in sequoia or something else. Apple has a bad rep for not supporting creative professionals, but they support when it benefits them like every other business. Logic has massive professional marketshare, it would be like Crescent stopping production on adjustable wrenches, because craftsman makes them anyway and it isn’t really making a dent in the bottom line. It’s one of the archetypal UX of a DAW and the expectation of good sounding stock instruments kinda came from them. I also hate when I have to use logic and would love if it went away, but that ain’t happening!!

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#234

Post by smabie »

sjwright wrote: post #228
smabie wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any awesome software that only runs on Linux. I can think of a couple examples of not-awesome software (systemd and wayland come to mind). What do you have in mind? Edit: Maybe WireGuard? But that's kind of niche.

If you qualify "running" to mean "I can run that executable somehow" then sure. I can use virtual machines and emulation to run anything anywhere. If you qualify "running" to mean "runs well in an environment the developers will support", there is a lot of software that is only available for Linux.

Such as? Most software that runs on Linux runs on BSD and WSL as well.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#235

Post by rogerclark »

basisword wrote: post #220
qmmmur wrote: post #121

I'm glad for all the logic users and students I have. If you want to get serious about making music I'd urge you to check out REAPER.

Why? I've been in a lot of studios and never seen Reaper used once. It's all Pro Tools and a surprising amount of Cubase. This is very much the same as "if you want to get serious about coding use VIM not VSCode".

this is highly dependent on region, genre and demographics. every scene has their own tools. in the EDM scene, Pro Tools is regarded as a joke -- absolutely no one uses it, and the impression is that it's for old and out-of-touch people. I know a team producing music for several very well-known television series entirely using Reaper

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#236

Post by jay_kyburz »

sjwright wrote: post #227
jay_kyburz wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed my point because I wasn't very clear. Apple is actively trying to lock users into its ecosystem, and a few years ago I discovered how hard it was to switch. I have found that the time invested in learning how to use a tool is far more valuable than having a tool with a few more features. So with that in mind, I choose to invest my time and money learning how to use open source tools. I would much rather be…

You missed MY point. If you rely on ANY software which is only available on Windows—whether it's published by Microsoft or say BandLab—you are locked into Windows just as surely as Apple software locks you to MacOS. Your rationale is valid for avoiding Logic Pro, but not MacOS. I agree about open source, of course.

Yes, I was agreeing with you, Windows only software _is_ off the table for me. Especially if a "nearly as good" open source alternative that doesn't lock me in to an OS is available.

Because one day, for other reasons, I might be "forced" to switch back to Mac and I will want to take my tools with me.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#237

Post by sjwright »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #236
sjwright wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed MY point. If you rely on ANY software which is only available on Windows—whether it's published by Microsoft or say BandLab—you are locked into Windows just as surely as Apple software locks you to MacOS. Your rationale is valid for avoiding Logic Pro, but not MacOS. I agree about open source, of course.

Yes, I was agreeing with you, Windows only software _is_ off the table for me. Especially if a "nearly as good" open source alternative that doesn't lock me in to an OS is available. Because one day, for other reasons, I might be "forced" to switch back to Mac and I will want to take my tools with me.

I was responding to you saying:

> And that is why I will never go back to Mac.

It seems like you've changed your perspective.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#238

Post by renaudg »

richrichardsson wrote: post #225
renaudg wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cannot turn around updates at the drop of a dime when Apple decides to give them little notice Which audio software developers are you talking about ? The ones that are given a chance in June each year to preview the latest OS like all other devs, but decide to turn a blind eye while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer ? And then, when asked in September if they're gonna be ready…

> extremely small teams Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe? Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that still have to be creating new software if they want income. Having to divert their energy to fixing something that Apple decided to break hurts their bottom line. Regardless of if you think your position is correct, pro-audio users are starting to get tired of Apple…

I didn't ignore it, I specifically added "while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer"

Each year between June-September, I see release notes for indie software like CleanMyMac, Gemini, Hazel... with fixes and improvements for the upcoming macOS. They seem to welcome new stuff with a sense of excitement and eagerness.

In the audio world, there is an attitude of conservatism and an untold expectation that users are always several versions behind, that I haven't seen in any other field I care about.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#239

Post by richrichardsson »

whatok wrote: post #231
richrichardsson wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> extremely small teams Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe? Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that still have to be creating new software if they want income. Having to divert their energy to fixing something that Apple decided to break hurts their bottom line. Regardless of if you think your position is correct, pro-audio users are starting to get tired of Apple…

Even a larger company like Ableton is not supporting the previous version of Live in Catalina and won't release any updates for it: https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235803 The grandparent suggests that conservative users are to blame on this and that's partially true but it's not out of irrationality. If you are charging by the hour, you cannot afford any downtime. Studios run extremely lean teams and do…

Why would they update Live 9 though?

For users that do want to upgrade their operating system (and audio users are notoriously bad for staying on old versions, for reasons you already noted) there is a clear upgrade path.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#240

Post by jay_kyburz »

sjwright wrote: post #237
jay_kyburz wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I was agreeing with you, Windows only software _is_ off the table for me. Especially if a "nearly as good" open source alternative that doesn't lock me in to an OS is available. Because one day, for other reasons, I might be "forced" to switch back to Mac and I will want to take my tools with me.

I was responding to you saying: > And that is why I will never go back to Mac. It seems like you've changed your perspective.

I will never "voluntarily" go back to mac because I think Apple does actively try and lock people into the ecosystem.

Update To clarify: because I don't want to pay a premium for a computer where I am running tools that work well or better on other machines.

Makes sense to me, but.. I don't know, maybe its not logical. I ran Macs as my primary machine for 10 years. Now I have a different perspective and don't want to go back.

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