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Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

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Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#251

Post by jedberg »

cosmodisk wrote: post #234
Gibbon1 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite is trying to figure out a bug and nothing I can think of provides any clue. So I do some other work for a bit and go home. And the next morning sit down down and fix the problem in 2 minutes. Obviously _something_ got done between last night and this morning. But how would you bill for THAT. Or an old example from a mentor. Get in the shower, start thinking about what you're going to work on today. Realiz…

Last year we had a management meeting and somehow started talking about smoking. Someone suggested we should ban people from smoking because they are wasting company's time.I defended the smokers arguing these are usually much needed breaks for those on the phones. Then I went on explaining that I could literally sit outside the office all day and just talk to my colleague and smoke one after another and It will be a…

When I was a junior engineer, I worked on a team where everyone but me smoked. They would smoke for five minutes of every hour. It really pissed me off that they got breaks and I didn't. So I started joining them. Not to smoke, just to hang out while they smoked.

And you know what? My productivity went up! The reason? We talked about work during the smoke break. I got to be part of the conversation with the senior engineers, which meant I got to be involved in more valuable tasks.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#252

Post by devdas »

_curious_ wrote: post #132
HumblyTossed wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don't. They have two choices; quit or be fired. Personally, I would quit, but I've got that type of personality. Others can't just up and quit so they comply.

"Others can't just up and quit so they comply." Who are these others? Are you suggesting they do not have the ability to decide if they want to continue working?

People whose other option is starving?

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#253

Post by dvtrn »

cosmodisk wrote: post #4

It's being done by the same clowns who can't live without time clock cards, all sorts of monitoring,and tracking.These are the people who have no clue how to manage people,how to measure their work and act upon results.These are the same crappy companies who would rather ask their staff to email endless Excel spreadsheets to each other instead of investing some money in database or some crm system. In a nutshell,thes…

These are the same crappy companies who would rather ask their staff to email endless Excel spreadsheets to each other instead of investing some money in database or some crm system.

twitches involuntarily

Buddy you're hitting way too close to home for my comfort, right now (thankfully the complaints are being heard and division chief is willing to hear out suggestions for a better system to track OKRs)

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#254

Post by [deleted] »

Fargren wrote: post #249
_curious_ wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Should we really be given that extra privilege simply because what we chose or wanted or had the ability to do is in higher demand?" So you think you are privileged because you exercised your option to decide and do what's best for you? Or because you have the demonstrable ability to make it happen - ie - learn a thing that is in demand? Is it a privilege of the ability to act in your own self-interest? Stepping bac…

> When all are privileged, are any, really? That's like saying "when everybody has money, does anyone have money?". People have varying amounts (and kinds) of privilege, but some have more than others.

[deleted]

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#256

Post by _curious_ »

Fargren wrote: post #249
_curious_ wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Should we really be given that extra privilege simply because what we chose or wanted or had the ability to do is in higher demand?" So you think you are privileged because you exercised your option to decide and do what's best for you? Or because you have the demonstrable ability to make it happen - ie - learn a thing that is in demand? Is it a privilege of the ability to act in your own self-interest? Stepping bac…

> When all are privileged, are any, really? That's like saying "when everybody has money, does anyone have money?". People have varying amounts (and kinds) of privilege, but some have more than others.

...and who has the privilege of judging others privilege?

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#257

Post by panda-giddiness »

_curious_ wrote: post #238
panda-giddiness wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably these invasive measures were instituted after the pandemic. Employees didn't agree to these measures when they accepted their jobs, so of course they have a right to be upset with their employers now. If these measures are unpopular, we shouldn't blame employees for being upset; instead, blame the employers for dictating those unpopular policies. Employees have little bargaining power here. While quitting…

"Employees have little bargaining power here." They hold all the power, actually, unless you are one who does not believe in the power of self-agency because perhaps you've already relinquished yours? "While quitting is hypothetically an option (albeit realistically not necessarily), so is shaming. And I see nothing wrong with shaming companies for their stupid, dehumanizing initiatives." Hey, me either, what kind of…

> you are one who does not believe in the power of self-agency because perhaps you've already relinquished yours?

It's hard for my response to be anything other than rolling my eyes. I'm a grad student. If my advisor demanded the ability to surveil me at all times, what would you expect me to do? Quit grad school, throwing away my last four years of work, because I have "self-agency"?

No, I'd complain to some higher power -- in my case, the graduate student association or the university.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#258

Post by _curious_ »

evilolive wrote: post #241
_curious_ wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"virtue signal some sort of privilege" - I'm referring to a particular "let them eat cake" sentiment I'm detecting by your posts. An apt analogy because it was a signal of her misunderstanding of the lower classes food situation. Still confused…what does "virtue signal some sort of privilege" actually mean? Do you have some sort of privileged information on the matter? "vulnerable populations" - people who are unable…

In a nutshell he says : - from your tone it sounds that you have never been faced with such hardships and decisions to make. - "quickly and efficiently" to me would be anything that would allow you to pay the next bills. Esp. since 78% of american workers live paycheck to paycheck with no cushion to absorb downtime looking for new work. I'm detecting a bit of dishonesty (trolling?) in your answers too.

Is it dishonest to ask questions, probe, push-back, challenge, disagree, whatever you want to call it? I'm respectfully inquiring as to what another human thinks (and that human was not you unless you speak for them?).

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#259

Post by kyuudou »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #219
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally it's just an outdated style of doing business. The same people who tell you not to do personal web browsing at work will not respond to an email that arrives in the evening until they clock in the next morning. Whereas sure, I don't spend an eight hour solid block of time working each day, but I'll respond to a help ticket at 11pm because someone had a quick need and my computer is handy. My employer is…

>My employer is still getting my eight hours, possibly more, just diffused through the whole day. Even that sticks in my craw... we need to make this 8 hour bar die. Some days I'm just not productive. Other days I might be heads-down on a problem for 15+ hours straight. So long as I'm accountable to my work and it is producing the results we've mutually agreed upon, this hour nonsense (for workers not billing by the…

>we need to make this 8 hour bar die.

I think I get where you're coming from but I'm at the point in my career where I like work/life balance and do not give a shit about your email once I've turned off work (unless it's an emergency, obviously). If this doesn't happen, work creeps into life until that's all it is, no fun, no exercise, no fresh air, no social interaction, no family time - and all the negative mental and physical health effects that result from this.

I mean, if a really productive brainstorm session bleeds over an hour or 2 every once in a while and we just can't stop the flood of great ideas or hit that "flow", of course, let's keep going. But every damn day? Get a life, kid! Before it's too late.

On the flip side, if I get inspired to do work in my off-hours, I don't go charging it back, so to speak.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#260

Post by _curious_ »

panda-giddiness wrote: post #257
_curious_ wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Employees have little bargaining power here." They hold all the power, actually, unless you are one who does not believe in the power of self-agency because perhaps you've already relinquished yours? "While quitting is hypothetically an option (albeit realistically not necessarily), so is shaming. And I see nothing wrong with shaming companies for their stupid, dehumanizing initiatives." Hey, me either, what kind of…

> you are one who does not believe in the power of self-agency because perhaps you've already relinquished yours? It's hard for my response to be anything other than rolling my eyes. I'm a grad student. If my advisor demanded the ability to surveil me at all times, what would you expect me to do? Quit grad school, throwing away my last four years of work, because I have "self-agency"? No, I'd complain to some higher…

...Is your default reaction to hearing an opinion you do not agree with or understand to roll your eyes?

Thanks for describing what you would do in the situation. It sounds like you are the type who would accept it given the option of quitting or continuing, is that fair to say based off an incomplete answer? There's no right or wrong, there's simply choice in the matter we all have that power to choose :)

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