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A first look at Unreal Engine 5

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Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#341
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude I spent a large portion of my early career as a web developer making rounded corners on divs using all sorts of kludges

Rounded corners using tables and gifs?

YES BABY!!! I use to do it all the time. =)

https://web.archive.org/web/20040204003135/http://www.realid...

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#342
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tomb Raider-esque parts where the character is jumping and climbing didn't look right. She's missing some kind of "weight" or something in her animation that makes it look like she's not really doing those things. Lara Croft's animations are much more convincing.

This isn't supposed to be a real game but a tech demo of engine capabilities. Expecting them to spend as much money on getting climbing animations as good as a AAA game is kind of crazy. When it comes to animation the interesting stuff were the "automated" hand/foot placement animations like the hand on the door they mentioned.

Fair. It certainly makes me appreciate the little details in games like Tomb Raider and Uncharted more.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#343

It's great to see that graphics continue to improve, but I think the pipelining of reproducing physical space characteristics is most interesting to me. One of the things they mention in the video is using tools to measure how real spaces echo and then reproducing those echo characteristics in virtual spaces. Techniques like that have enormous potential for allowing us to use virtual space and actual space collaborat…

Ah, convolution reverb. We've had it for a long time in DSP. Basically what you do is pop a balloon (create an "impulse" -- you can also clap your hands or use an electric arc) and record the echo. This gives you what's called the "impulse response" of the space.

Reverb is really just thousands of echoes, and echoes are just the original sound delayed back to you. So what you can do is use the impulse response in a FIR filter, convolve it with the original signal, and you've recreated the same reverb with a different sound.

This technique has been quite accessible to audio engineers (and mechanical engineers) for a few decades now. But you really only go out and sample impulse responses when you really need a very accurate model of the reverb. In most cases someone will just use a precanned impulse response.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#344
post #292

What a magical demo! That made my day. I had largely written off console gaming as a never-ending sequence of brain-dead first person shooters. I'm glad to see real innovation in the graphics space - coupled with advances in AI and NLP, I think we could see a crop of incredibly realistic and meaningful games in the next few years. IMHO, a key innovation that still needs to occur is a shift away from flunky and unintu…

To play devil's advocate - games with this kind of production value require a huge investment in asset production, which means they tend to be very conservative when it comes to gameplay, because they want to be damn sure it doesn't flop. So until the production of something like this comes way down in price, the games that look like this are likely to be clones of existing successful games, e.g. Uncharted, brain-dea…

I thought Horizon Zero Dawn hit the right balance across gameplay, visuals and story narrative in this current generation of gaming and received all the praise it deserved. Now, I’ll say in my opinion, not one thing was overwhelmingly novel in comparison to the rest, but the attention to detail given to each of those elements elevated the collective experience in that particular title, the result was a game that felt incredibly fresh and easily replayable.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#345

What a magical demo! That made my day. I had largely written off console gaming as a never-ending sequence of brain-dead first person shooters. I'm glad to see real innovation in the graphics space - coupled with advances in AI and NLP, I think we could see a crop of incredibly realistic and meaningful games in the next few years. IMHO, a key innovation that still needs to occur is a shift away from flunky and unintu…

That was my first thought- it's a shame all we have to interact with such a complex, richly rendered world is a couple of analog sticks and some buttons.

You're going to absolutely love what Oculus is working on.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#346
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the industry, so pure speculation. Unreal Engine's old business model were exactly that, get you excited with demos and sign up ( paid ) for their engine. And it was the same with UE 3 and UE 4. But in 2015 all that changed. It was open sourced on Github, it has a very sustainable revenue model due to the explosion of Mobile Gaming, the Gaming industry as a whole is now bigger than Movies and Music industry co…

UE5 is not open source, it is shared source or "source available". Assuming it follows the model of UE4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-available_software

Good point, but OP's point is that they can't hide behind demos. Anyone who requests the source will most likely get it and be able to see what's going on.

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#347

I am always skeptical of tech demos like this, but if Epic has truly created a way to show full quality assets at runtime without manual LOD / optimization, then this is going to be a huge process improvement for game development. Same goes for this lighting. Baking lights is such a burden, if they can simply do all of this at runtime then making beautiful games just became that much easier. They also bought Quixel,…

Don't you still need to do some of that just for file size and data transfer, if nothing else? In the demo they said it had hundreds of billions of triangles. Google tells me you can get down to 18 bytes or so per triangle, but even if we assume a lower bound of just three bytes per triangle (amortized storage of 1 vertex per triangle of an x,y,z point), we're talking about on the order of terabytes to just store tha…

>even if we assume just three bytes per triangle,

that give's you up to 16.7m (2^24) possible triangles. Your napkin math is way off,

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#348

so PC gamers, with 8K textures and UE5, what would you like to see aside from pushed framerates?

Active worlds.

I've played open world games like the Witcher 3, or Assassin's Creed Odissey; and damn they're impressive games. Assassin's creed in particular was really amazing, you could wander through ancient Greece and just enjoy the sights, visit the cities.

With the kind of things demoed here it will be even more amazing.

But the games feel somehow lifeless, as if you're the only one really living in there. Sure there are some NPCs, but they are all reactive, not active. You can roam the countryside for a while and come back to civilization, nothing will have changed, except maybe the town will be governed by blue instead of red.

There's some premises, on Odissey, you have some patrols for both sides moving around, and if they encounter each other they start fighting. But that's small scale, and partly scripted at that, there will always be the same patrols going through the same paths.

What's missing is that you cannot walk on a battle in progress unless it is in the story. You won't see a city patching up its walls after a siege, merchants running a real economy, people going on with their lives in general. But meaningfully, not just walking around the town and going back to their house at night.

I assume it's really difficult though. First technically, it's a lot of CPU power. And a lot of work to create AI that meaningfully impact the world.

Then it's how to design a game in a world you cannot really predict. It could be purely open box, a la mount and blade, but I think it could be more, with an underlying story line that would adapt to the changing world.

Of course you don't need to do everything at once. In this case, simply having the 2 armies stateful (e.g. a set number of troops with some replenishments, but not always the same soldiers in the places), with troops moving across the countryside, and 2 AIs vying for power across the land would be fantastic

Re: A first look at Unreal Engine 5

#350
Does anyone have any theories as to how Nanite actually works? I've never heard of virtualized micropolygon geometry before and it sounds a bit buzzwordy. Do we think they are just loading the full model into GPU memory, or are they baking down various LODs and normal maps at compile time through some automatic process? Either way, it's a huge workflow improvement. It's just unclear what's actually happening...
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