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React Native for Windows and Mac

microsoft.github.io

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Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#461

Post by scarface74 »

nindalf wrote: post #331
pjmlp wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Slack and other Electron based applications because my job requires it, imposed by our IT or customers, not because I freely have chosen to use them or have the liberty to look for alternatives. Other than VSCode for Rust and TypeScript, my own personal computer is as much Electron free as possible. So don't mistake market share for freedom of choice.

VSCode is a great example. We’ve already established that the average joe out there doesn’t care about whether an app is implemented in electron or not. But VSCode’s success at the expense of every other editor out there indicates that even developers don’t care that much. The important thing is features - which VSCode has, and the speed at which those features are developed and deployed on all platforms - where VSCo…

I use Visual Studio (not Code) for C#, Python and Node now.

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#462

Post by decafninja »

wolco wrote: post #439
benbristow wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MongoDB still seems to be around and kicking?

I'm still a MongoDB cerificated developer. The popularity has dropped as with the amount of positions available. There may come a time when this applies to Go.

I'm curious, what seems to be the Next Big Thing that is superceding MongoDB?

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#463

Post by scarface74 »

jasonlotito wrote: post #393
scarface74 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as desktop software, the only software I pay for are subscriptions to Office 365 and JetBrains R#. I don’t really use my personal computer for too much of anything besides Office and a Plex server - I paid for a Plex Pass solely to support the developer. On mobile, I’ll pay to remove ads and I won’t use any software or games where I can’t remove ads. With the economy in the crapper, I’m starting to voluntarily…

This is funny because you just listed a bunch of cross platform software.

The argument is not about cross platform software. It’s about native client software.

Office is not written using one of the cross platform frameworks and is usually only around 3-9 months behind when it comes to taking advantage of new features as Apple releases them.

Plex is server software. The UI is a web page.

R# itself is a plug-in only for Visual Studio for Windows. Yes Rider is cross platform, but I don’t have a need for it.

The only other software I mentioned are games. No one expects a native experience from games.

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#464

Post by scarface74 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #355
scarface74 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Follow the money. People pay for what they value. Who is paying money for desktop software besides games, Office 365, and the Adobe Creative Suite? Who values desktop software enough to pay for it? I know in the Mac market at least, the few indy developers making money are not writing apps using cross platform SDKs.

Office already uses react native for parts of their desktop and mobile platforms, win32 is in the process of integrating react-native support. So does Adobe at least if their github is any indication. And if you look at the end consumer software which have billions of users, who in one way or the other pay for it, it's almost always built on web tech these days. Discord, Skype, Slack, Spotify, and so on. Of course th…

Consumers don’t pay Slack - businesses do.

No one cares about the Spotify UI. People don’t interact with Spotify that much. They listen to it.

The business model of charging upfront isn't exactly a sign of popularity, if anything it's the opposite.

In a capitalist system how else do you measure value than what people are willing to pay enough for to have a sustainable business? End users aren’t paying for Slack. They are using the free plan because it’s good enough.

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#465

Post by scarface74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #325
scarface74 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Follow the money. People pay for what they value. Who is paying money for desktop software besides games, Office 365, and the Adobe Creative Suite? Who values desktop software enough to pay for it? I know in the Mac market at least, the few indy developers making money are not writing apps using cross platform SDKs.

Lots of business running Windows on their labs and using desktop software for various use cases, like data analysis. Plenty of money to be made desktop solutions to life sciences, manufacturing, factory automation, aren't plugging their air gaped dashboards to the web. Anyone doing music composition, graphics, animation, infotainment systems. In Europe there are enough Win32, WPF, UWP, Qt related jobs and consulting…

We are speaking specifically about B2C where the users are the customers.

But either way, you kind of made my point. Consumers aren't paying for applications built on cross platform frameworks outside of games.

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#466

Post by SamuelAdams »

e_proxus wrote: post #431
jmull wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of that kind of package is to provide a standalone implementation of a function. To criticize this organization, you would need to understand why people find that to be valuable and show a better approach. You’re attributing it to “culture” but there may be deeper, less arbitrary reasons. Look up “ponyfill” if you are interested in learning about it.

Wouldn’t the alternative simply be bigger libraries grouped around common functionality or extension points? Like jQuery or similar (only an example, not sure what is hip today). I’d rather trust a fairly big library with an organized open source group behind it than thousands of small libraries by unknown developers.

Another good example: .NET Core. I trust that Microsoft hires good people who can update the core libraries in .NET Core to not do dumb and unexpected things. I trust Microsoft to have controls that check for malicious behavior and prevent / fix that quickly. I trust Microsoft to vet all open-source dependencies they decide to integrate into their products.

Also the legal team likes this a lot more too. If a data leak occurs due to some library that Microsoft wrote, we have one company to sue. If it's a react package, who the hell do we go after? Most of these are "at will" / MIT license style things, so we are more or less SOL anyways, but legal teams don't like hearing that.

You also get at a more fundamental question. What is trust? Why can we trust a larger organization over a collection of individuals? Are they not the same thing? What social structures make one more trustworthy over another?

There's a great book on this by Bruce Schneier called Liars and Outliers. I highly recommend you read it.

https://www.schneier.com/books/liars_and_outliers/

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#467

Post by scarface74 »

onion2k wrote: post #306
scarface74 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many end users pay for non-game desktop software at all? How many successful (ie profitable) companies have made money selling desktop software using cross platform frameworks like React Native?

How many successful (ie profitable) companies have made money selling desktop software using cross platform frameworks like React Native? React Native for Windows and Mac specifically, none. We commenting on an article about its launch. It's a bit early to be talking about that. Cross-platform frameworks like Electron or Flutter, loads. VSCode, Skype, Discord, WhatsApp Desktop all use it. Of course you might argue th…

And no one cares about any of those apps to pay money directly...

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#468

Post by pjmlp »

scarface74 wrote: post #465
pjmlp wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of business running Windows on their labs and using desktop software for various use cases, like data analysis. Plenty of money to be made desktop solutions to life sciences, manufacturing, factory automation, aren't plugging their air gaped dashboards to the web. Anyone doing music composition, graphics, animation, infotainment systems. In Europe there are enough Win32, WPF, UWP, Qt related jobs and consulting…

We are speaking specifically about B2C where the users are the customers. But either way, you kind of made my point. Consumers aren't paying for applications built on cross platform frameworks outside of games.

Kind of, most consumers that aren't willing to pay for desktop software aren't also paying for games.

In most countries they just need to go the local market or get hold of one of those lists distributed among students.

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#469

Post by scarface74 »

andreareina wrote: post #429
jamil7 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for VS but XCode is a pig.

For those that don't know, the latest version is an 8GB download.

XCode also includes the entire iOS/tvOS/iPadOS/watchOS frameworks compiled for x86 for use in the simulators.

Re: React Native for Windows and Mac

#470

Post by scarface74 »

jfkebwjsbx wrote: post #343
sayhello wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to be sad? When software becomes easier to develop, it enables everyone to benefit. More developers, more applications of software. At the same time, performance has a tangential relationship with computer code being interpreted or compiled to native. After all, Java is compiled to byte code and powers plenty of high traffic servers efficiently. Many AAA games use ActionScript, Python, Lua, etc for t…

Java, JavaScript, .NET, forks of Lua, forks of Python, and others are JIT compiled. So I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone that is able to is compiling their stuff to try to regain some efficiency. The reason is that people wants to do more complex things with their software nowadays, and hardware can't keep up with the trend. There is also battery life, smartphones, tablets... Those are the reasons we are se…

I’m not referring to “native” as in compiles down to x86 and doesn’t need a runtime. I’m referring to native as the opposite of a cross platform framework that produces apps that don’t take advantage of the native OS’s look and feel.

This isn’t just me being a Mac snob. I found Apple’s few Windows apps over the years to be just as bad.

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